الفرص المتاحة لاسرائيل لاطلاق صواريخ نووية من غواصاتها ؟

[مارشــال]

البوب اّي

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/israel/sub.htm

Popeye Turbo

In May 2000, Israel is reported to have secretly carried out its first test launches from two German-built Dolphin-class submarines of cruise missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads. The missiles launched from vessels off Sri Lanka in the Indian Ocean are said to have hit a target at a range of about 1,500 kilometers [about 930 statute miles]. Israel is reported to possess a 200kg nuclear warhead, containing 6kg of plutonium, that could be mounted on cruise missiles.

Israel has reportedly developed an air-launched cruise missile that could be operational by 2002, called the Popeye Turbo. The Popeye Turbo, with a range that is variously reported at between 200 km and 350 km, would appear to represent a turbo-jet powered cruise missile that may incorporate avionics and other components developed for the Popeye family of missiles. The AGM-142 HAVE NAP is a variant of the Israeli Air Force "Popeye" missile, which uses a solid propellant rocket motor. The Popeye II, also known as the Have Lite, is a smaller missile with more advanced technology. Designed for deployment on fighter aircraft, Popeye II has a range of 150 kilometers.


The Popeye Turbo missile is probably similar to if not identical with the Israeli submarine-launced cruise missile carried on the Dolphin-class submarines. The baseline Popeye missile with a range of 45 miles has a diameter of 21 inches, and is nearly 16 feet long. For comparison, the American MK-48 heavy torpedo is 21 inches in diameter, and 19 feet long, while the BGM-109 Tomahawk SLCM is 20.4 inches in diameter and 20.5 feet long [including the booster motor], and the Russian SS-N-21 SLCM is similar in configuration and dimensions to the American Tomahawk.

The reported range of 1,500 km for the SLCM tested in May 2000 is several times greater than the previously reported range for the Popeye Turbo. However, the Popeye Turbo is a poorly attested missile, and the open literature provides little information on this system. Indeed, because of the small size of the vehicle and the limited testing program to date, it is entirely possible that even the US intelligence community has only limited insight into the capabilities of this system. There is no particular reason to doubt that Israel could develop a variant of the Popeye Turbo with a range of 1,500 km, simply by lengthening the fuel tank associated with a 300-350 km variant reported by US intelligence. At present it is not possible to determine whether the US intelligence has under-estimated the range of this missile, or whether news reports have over-estimated the missile's range. The longer range reported in June 2000 is certainly consistent with Israeli targetting requirements.

It is generally agreed that these submarines are outfitted with six 533-millimeter torpedo tubes suitable for the 21-inch torpedoes that are normally used on most submarines, including those of the United States. Some reports suggest that the submarines have a total of ten torpedo tubes -- six 533-millimeter and four 650-millimeter. Uniquely, the Soviet navy deployed the Type 65 heavy-weight torpedo using a 650-millimeter tube. The four larger 25.5 inch diameter torpedo tubes could be used to launch a long-range nuclear-capable submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM).​

 

[مارشــال]

يلا ياعمي ورينا الهمه............

 

[Muhamed]

خد عندك

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/israel/sub.htm

Submarines

Three 1,925 ton Type 800 Dolphin class submarines have been built in German shipyards for the Israel Navy. Modern submarines with the most advanced sailing and combat systems in the world, they combine extensive sophistication with very easy operation. The purpose of these submarines is to enable the Israel Navy to meet all the tasks faced in the Mediterranean Sea in the 21st century. The submarines cost $320 million each, and are twice as big as the aging Gal-class submarines that the Israeli navy has relied on to date.

The submarine has the capacity to carry anti-ship missiles, mines, decoys and STN Atlas wire-guided DM2A3 torpedoes. The surface-to-surface missiles may include the submarine-launched Harpoon which delivers a 227 kilogram warhead to a range of 130 kilometres at high subsonic speed. It is generally agreed that these submarines are outfitted with six 533-millimeter torpedo tubes suitable for the 21-inch torpedoes that are normally used on most submarines, including those of the United States.

Some reports suggest that the submarines have a total of ten torpedo tubes -- six 533-millimeter and four 650-millimeter. Uniquely, the Soviet navy deployed the Type 65 heavy-weight torpedo using a 650-millimeter tube. The four larger 25.5 inch diameter torpedo tubes could be used to launch a long-range nuclear-capable submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM). According to some reports the submarines may be capable of carrying nuclear-armed Popeye Turbo cruise missiles, with a goal of deterring an enemy from trying to take out its nuclear weapons with a surprise attack.

Under a system of rotation, some sources claim that two of the vessels would remain at sea: one in the Red Sea and Persian Gulf, the other in the Mediterranean. A third would remain on standby.

The project initially was structured to include an industrial team consisting of HDW and Thyssen Nordseewerke, lead by Ingalls Shipbuilding. The project, under which the boats would be built in the United States by Ingalls using US FMS funds, was cancelled in 1990. The crews of the submarines started training in 1994, and participated in the building process as well as in the acceptance procedures for weapon systems. Germany donated two of these submarines to Israel, which were delivered in 1997. Israel bought a third Dolphin submarine from Germany. The project to build the Israeli Navy's third submarine, named "Tekumah ," was launched in Germany on 09 July 1998 with the participation of Defense Ministry Director General Ilan Biran and other naval officers. Tekumah [T'kuma] is the Hebrew word for "revival." The third submarine arrived in Israel during mid-1999.

A major role for hunter, killer and patrol submarines is the destruction of enemy submarines and shipping. In order to achieve this, the submarine must load, store and launch a range of stores. The submarine must also detect its target while attempting to remain covert. The Israel Navy has three Gal submarines. They were built in the 1970s at the Vickers shipyard in Britain, based on German blueprints. The Gal submarines are an important part of the main combat force of the Israel Navy.

The German Type 209 diesel electric submarine is the most popular export-sales submarine in the world, and sales continue as smaller nations modernize their aging fleets. Greece was the first country to order this type of submarine from Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft AG (HDW) of Kiel, Germany, and the first batch of these submarines entered service in 1971. The 1,200-ton Type 209 submarine is a hunter killer submarine that India purchased from HDW, Germany. The initial contract was for 2 submarines to be sold and for 4 more to be constructed at the Mazagaon docks in Mumbai. The deal however went sour when it was hit by a bribery scandal, after the first four ships were delivered to the Indian Navy.

Advances in electric drive and power conditioning were introduced into the German Type 212. This German submarine has low and balanced signatures including acoustic signatures, longer submerged mission capability and a modern combat system with sophisticated sensors and state of the art torpedoes. The technologies inherent in this design include a fuel cell air independent propulsion (AIP) system with a back up single diesel generator, highly modular arrangements of critical areas and the frame carrying the diesel generator and auxiliary equipment such as the hydraulic pumps, compressors, etc.- is enclosed in a sound absorbent capsule and isolated from the pressure hull. The AIP system utilized is more commonly called 'MESMA'. Translated it means Autonomous Submarine Energy Module and was developed for submarines.

The 1,720-ton Dolphin class is evidently somewhat larger than the 1,500-ton Type 212 submarines, and incorporates a conventional diesel-electric propulsion system rather than the AIP system.

The detection that the submarines were equipped with two types of torpedo tubes (533mm and 650mm respectively) fueled speculation that the submarine might have a possible nuclear role, given that 533mm torpedo tubes would have been sufficient for the weaponry that was to be installed on board.

When questioned about this in parliament, the German government confirmed the presence of the 650mm tubes in the Dolphin submarines but could not provide an explanation, other than that the tubes were to be fitted with liners upon delivery to reduce the tubes' diameters to 533mm. Because 50% of design rights are reported to belong to Israel, and, as a result it had no 'design authority', the German government claimed that it could not have any knowledge of the larger tubes' purpose.

An article published by the Los Angeles Times in mid-October 2003, indicated that Israel had successfully modified American-supplied Harpoon cruise missiles for use with nuclear warheads on its submarines. The process would have involved reducing the size of the warheads to fit inside the missiles as well as altering the guidance systems so as to be able to hit land-based targets, but would enable Israel to deliver nuclear weapons from the sea virtually unimpedded. The claim was however disputed by Israeli and others who questioned the ability of the Harpoon missile to carry a nuclear payload.

As of early November 2003, it was reported by the German newspaper Berliner Zeitung, that Germany`s leading shipyard company HDW was involved in negotiations with Israel to construct two additional Dolphin submarines. HDW confirmed these conversations, which were said to be of a purely technical nature and claimed the German government had approved them. It was also reported that Israeli engineers had modified the missile launching pads of earlier Dolphin submarines at the Kiel's HDW dockyard, possibly to accomodate nuclear warheads.

The German Focus magazine reported on November 24, 2003, that the German government had halted the delivery of the two submarines to Israel. It was later clarified that while Israel did have an interest in additional submarines, given the financial burden associated with such a deal for Israel, Washington or Germany, only technical negotiations were being conducted with HDW, and that as a result, neither a formal nor preliminary request for any export license had been issued. The German Green party, however, who had originally opposed the delivery of the first three dolphin submarines, demanded that, in the future, additional submarines could only be delivered to Israel on the basis of a binding assurance that they would not be used as nuclear weapons platforms.
​

حينما يقول جلوبال سيكيورتي تقارير فاعلم أنه تقرير موثوق به ولن اّتي لك بواحد ممن عدلو الغواصه:laugh:

استاذي مارشال

حقيقة سئمت من تكرار نفسي و لا افهم الي ماذا تريد ان تصل !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
لقد كلمتك عن هذه الصيغة تحديدا و انت و كأنك لم تقراء شيأ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
المصادر الصحفية تجدها بمصدر عسكري ., المصار العسكرية تهتم بالاشاعات

و لكي اسهل مهمتك ., المصدر يقول بعض التقارير ادعت
فقط كل ما هو مطلوب ما هي هذه التقارير
هل هي وكاله المخابرات لدولة معينه .., هل هو اعلان اسرائيلي كما تعلن اسرائيل عن تجارب الارو او الشافيت ., و هكذا

هذا المصدر اوردته بنفسي ., وجود البوب اي لم اشكك به وهو ملائم لانابيب الاطلاق ., كما اني اول من ذكر وجوده بالموضوع !!!!
يا اخي فقط فكر بعقلك ., هل ستعدل قطعة سلاح بالكامل و يضحي باعتماديتها و طاقمها من اجل قذيفة !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
., لكن تعديل اسرائيلي للغواصه نفسها ., لا احب تخييب املك لا يوجد تعديل
و ارجوك اخي اقراء المصدر الاسرائيلي ..... صراحة اشعر انك تأخذ الامر بمحمل شخصي

 

[مارشــال]

لا اّخذ الأمر على محمل شخصي

سأحصر تركيزي على نقطتين

إما تعديل الغواصة

أو تعديل الصواريخ

وفي كلا الحالتين الناتج هو غواصة تطلق التوماهوك والنووي

مع شكري لك

 

[Muhamed]

لا اّخذ الأمر على محمل شخصي

سأحصر تركيزي على نقطتين

إما تعديل الغواصة

أو تعديل الصواريخ

وفي كلا الحالتين الناتج هو غواصة تطلق التوماهوك والنووي

مع شكري لك

رائع جدا ان لا نتشعب
الغواصه عدلتها اسرائيل ., لم يحدث و لا تستطيع
الغواصه تطلق نووي .., لم انكر ذلك
الغواصه تطلق توماهوك .., خطاء .., حتي المصادر التي اتيت بها لا تتحدث عن ذلك

 

[مارشــال]

رائع جدا ان لا نتشعب
الغواصه عدلتها اسرائيل ., لم يحدث و لا تستطيع
الغواصه تطلق نووي .., لم انكر ذلك
الغواصه تطلق توماهوك .., خطاء .., حتي المصادر التي اتيت بها لا تتحدث عن ذلك

يا أخي أرهقتني

أنا معك للنهية pop eye cruise misiile I &II

صواريخ مشابهة للتوماهوك كروز

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/missile/popeye-t.htm

http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/missile/naic/part07.htm

 

[Muhamed]

يا أخي أرهقتني

أنا معك للنهية pop eye cruise misiile I &II

صواريخ مشابهة للتوماهوك كروز

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/missile/popeye-t.htm

http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/missile/naic/part07.htm

و الله انت من ارهقني ...., نحن نضيع وقت بلا داعي

معظم الصواريخ الكروز متشابه في طريقة العمل و ربما في الشكل لكن في المدي و التوجيه و الراس الحربي سواء وزنه او عمله توجد اختلافات و اختلافات كبيرة !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

لا افهم لماذا تصر ان تأتي بمصادر للبوب اي كما لو كنت انكر وجوده !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[مارشــال]

بالمناسبة لك هدية

Add to that Israel's fleet of three German-built Dolphin class submarines. A recent report in The Los Angeles Times quoted unnamed senior Israeli and U.S. officials saying the subs can now launch cruise missiles modified to carry a nuclear payload. Israel says such modifications are impossible.​

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/21/israel.vanunu.vause/index.html

أميركيون يؤكدون وإسرائيل تنفي ..........أعطني عقلك

 

[Muhamed]

بالمناسبة لك هدية

Add to that Israel's fleet of three German-built Dolphin class submarines. A recent report in The Los Angeles Times quoted unnamed senior Israeli and U.S. officials saying the subs can now launch cruise missiles modified to carry a nuclear payload. Israel says such modifications are impossible.​

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/21/israel.vanunu.vause/index.html

أميركيون يؤكدون وإسرائيل تنفي ..........أعطني عقلك

الم اقل لك انك تأخذ الامر بشكل شخصي !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

استاذي قلت لك ايضا من قبل ان المصادر الصحفيه غير دقيقة و اليك تعليق و هو ليس تعليق بل تكرار لمس سبق و قلته

مره اخري المصدر لا يشير لمصدر التقارير المشار اليها

المصدر يقول ان الدولفين اصبحت قادرة على اطلاق صواريخ كروز كما لو كانت غير قادرة لحظه تصنيعها او انها لم يراعي ذلك بتصميمها !!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/dolphin/

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu6SgL...nogw.com/download/2005_dolphin_attack_sub.pdf


المصدر يقول missiles modified to carry a nuclear warheads BLA BLA BLA

و تعني صواريخ معدلة و ليست غواصه معدلة ., و لم تأتي بجديد
من الطبيعي لاسرائيل ان تنكر لانها تعهدت لالمانيا بعدم استخدام الغواصات وهو بأي حال فعل الماني صوري و انكار اسرائيلي صوري و من المستحيل ضمان التزام اسرائيل بهكذا تعهد

و بأي حال لتكون امكانيات الغواصه واضحه و لكي ننهي هذا الجدل الغير مفيد
تفضل

 

[mohamed rizk]

بصو كده المصدر ده بيتكلم على التعديلات اللى تمت على الدولفن ولكنها تعديلات مهندسين ألمان
-تم تعديل سعة خزانات الوقود (والمصدر شارح ليه تم التعديل: عشان مستقبلا متوقع ان مصر مش هتسيب الغواصات تعدى البحر الاحمر من قناة السويس والتعديلات دى تخليها تعدى حول افريقيا مستريح وعندهم اختيار اريتريا كدعم لوجيستى كمان)
-تم التعديل للسماح بحمل صواريخ كروز ذات الرؤوس النووية (يقصدو تكتيكية ولا لأ)
-تم تكبير فتحات التوربينات أكبر من 650مم او أكبر من 26بوصة

بجانب معدات الكترونية حديثة

The Israeli government has admitted that they had finally, after over two years of negotiations, signed a deal with Germany to receive two more Dolphin class submarines, capable of carrying nuclear-armed cruise missiles, StrategyPage.com reported Sunday
.

It appears that Israel will receive two that are already built, or under construction. Israel already has three Dolphins, which they received five to six years ago. These are now being upgraded by a team of German engineers. The upgrades include larger fuel capacity, converting more torpedo tubes to the larger 650mm, or 26-inch, size, and installing new electronics, StrategyPage.com said.


The fuel and torpedo tube mods appear to have something to do with stationing the subs off the coast of Iran, the report said. Larger torpedo tubes allow the subs to carry longer range missiles. The larger fuel capacity makes it easier to move Dolphins from the Mediterranean to the Indian Ocean, the report said. Egypt will not allow Israeli subs to use the Suez Canal. So the Dolphins have to go around Africa. Currently, that is apparently being accomplished via a refueling stop in friendly Eritrea. But if that access is denied in the future, the larger fuel capacity will enable the Dolphins to make it all the way on their own


Larger fuel capacity also allows the subs to spend more time on station off the Iranian coast. Currently the Dolphins can stay at sea for about 40 days, moving at about 8.4 miles per hour, on the surface, for up to 4,800 miles. Larger fuel capacity could extend range to over 6,000 miles, and endurance to about 50 days, StrategyPage.com said


The first three Dolphins did not have the Air Independent Propulsion system, StrategyPage.com said
???

Israel equipped it's new Dolphin class submarines with nuclear cruise missiles in 2002. Israel also fitted their 80-mile-range Harpoon missiles with nuclear warheads. These missiles are fired from the subs torpedo tubes. The 1,625-ton Dolphins can carry 16 torpedoes or missiles and have 10 forward torpedo tubes, four of them the larger 650mm, or 26-inch, size.
The Dolphins are considered the most modern non-nuclear subs in the world. The first three and cost $320 million each.
They have a crew of 35 and can dive to a depth of more than 600 feet, the report said.

The Israelis have developed a cruise missile, which is has a range of 900 miles and carries a 200-kiloton nuclear warhead, the report said.
​

 

[mohamed rizk]

هى فى مشكلة فى الصفحة الاخيرة؟؟

 

[فيلد مارشال]

حاجة مهمة للأعضاء لازم يفهموها .... اسرائيل لن تطلق اريحا من دولفين الا بعد تعديل فتحة فوهة قاذف الصوريخ ودة مش هيتم الا بعد مواقفة المانيا ودة قوبل برفض المانى قاطع عندما صرخ احد المئولين وقال ( سيحولون الدولفين لغواصة نووية ) اؤكد لكم ان حكاية الدولفين دى لتقليل عزيمتنا وتخويفنا لانهم عارفين ان اول ما يتقال كلمة نووى العرب قلبهم بيتخلع ولكن اسطورة الدولفين النووية ستظل اسطورة ولن تكون حقيقة

 

[فيلد مارشال]

بعد كل الكلام دة نستنتج ان الدولفين لا يصلح التعديل فيها ولا تستطيع حمل صواريخ اريحا ولكنها ستحمل صواريخ بوب اى ذو المدى 1500 كيلو متر والذود برؤس نووية صح

 

[mohamed rizk]

رد: الفرص المتاحة لاسرائيل لاطلاق صواريخ نووية من غواصاتها ؟

اكييد صح بالاضافه ان المخاطرة بالهجوم بالغواصات التى تنتمى الى بحريه ليست كبيرة هى مجازفه كبيره