مصدر عسكري: السيسي يتعاقد على شراء حاملة طائرات فرنسية
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http://www.meretmarine.com/…/la-fremm-normandie-pourrait-de…
Pour en revenir à la Normandie, dont la livraison à la Marine nationale est prévue dans les prochaines semaines, son éventuel transfert à l’Egypte nécessiterait des modifications. Il faudrait, notamment, débarquer les installations de lancement des missiles de croisière MdCN (16 cellules) et les remplacer éventuellement par des silos pour missiles surface-air Aster, sachant que la frégate dispose déjà de 16 cellules pour Aster 15. Il serait, en outre, nécessaire d'adapter différents systèmes aux standards égyptiens, à commencer par les communications. Et, bien entendu, assurer la formation d’un équipage, ce qui serait probablement l’un des grands défis d’un tel contrat compte tenu du calendrier évoqué
Pour en revenir à la Normandie, dont la livraison à la Marine nationale est prévue dans les prochaines semaines, son éventuel transfert à l’Egypte nécessiterait des modifications. Il faudrait, notamment, débarquer les installations de lancement des missiles de croisière MdCN (16 cellules) et les remplacer éventuellement par des silos pour missiles surface-air Aster, sachant que la frégate dispose déjà de 16 cellules pour Aster 15. Il serait, en outre, nécessaire d'adapter différents systèmes aux standards égyptiens, à commencer par les communications. Et, bien entendu, assurer la formation d’un équipage, ce qui serait probablement l’un des grands défis d’un tel contrat compte tenu du calendrier évoqué
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ترجمة جوجل لخبر الفريم
A multi-mission frigate built for the Navy could change and become Egyptian pavilion. The information circulating in well-informed circles for some time and we were implicitly echoed in an article dated November 21. However, we decided not to specifically mention the desire to acquire Cairo FREMM, which come from the stock of French frigates to do no harm to always sensitive negotiations for projects subject to strong competition. Before arriving in Paris, the Egyptian president, who had lunch yesterday with Francois Hollande, for example, was in Rome, which also is looking to sell the Italian version of the multi-mission frigate.
Delivery in 2015 after changes?
So these are our colleagues at La Tribune who dropped the piece yesterday afternoon, revealing that Normandy second French FREMM, would likely be sold to Egypt for delivery in 2015, Cairo wishing to have a new frigate very quickly. This acquisition, which is not officially confirmed, would be in addition to the four corvettes 2,500 tons of Gowind kind commissioned this year. The first, which will be conducted by DCNS in Lorient, to be delivered in the summer of 2017, while three are to be built locally, technology transfer. Discussions are also continuing to extend the contract with two additional units manufactured as the top seed in France.
To return to Normandy, whose delivery to the Navy is expected in the coming weeks, his possible transfer to Egypt require changes. It would, in particular, land the launch facilities cruise missiles MdCN (16 cells) and optionally change silos for surface to air missiles Aster, knowing that the frigate already has 16 cells for Aster 15. It would, Furthermore, different systems need to adapt to Egyptian standards, starting with communications. And, of course, the training of the crew, which would probably be one of the great challenges of such a contract given the timetable described.
Implications for the Navy
If it were to be confirmed, the transfer of the French frigate would not be without consequences for the Navy, which would see again his second FREMM sold for export. It must indeed not forget that the first Normandy was bought by Morocco, which has type-approved in early 2014 under the name of Mohammed VI. A sale in a very tight budgetary situation, allowed the Ministry of Defence to defer part of investments related to the FREMM program logic also applies in the case of Egypt.
Regarding the French navy therefore, the potential sale of Normandy poses several problems. First, the building must be reinforced by the Brest-seeded Aquitaine, delivered by DCNS in November 2012 and is to be admitted to active service this winter. The capabilities of the two buildings are expected, especially for the protection of nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines of the Strategic Oceanic Force. This, while the anti-submarine frigate Georges Leygues and De Grasse were disarmed in 2012, leaving the Primauguet Brest, La Motte-Picquet and Latouche Treville. A situation which, moreover, could leave imagine whether instead the third French FREMM, Provence (currently in trials for delivery in 2015), or even the next, the Languedoc (available in 2016), which was sold to Egypt. But, ultimately, it would be the Normandie that chosen, probably due to timing issues.
Whereby puncturing a frigate for Atlantic or intended for Mediterranean based arises in any case problems. Because there is not the need to Brest in ASM resources arises. At Toulon, following the withdrawal of the service this year Dupleix, it remains only two anti-submarine frigates, Montcalm and Jean de Vienne, which will be disarmed within the next few years, and one of whose tasks main is escorting the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle. Therefore it was decided to base the Provence and Languedoc in Toulon.
If the sale of Normandy is confirmed, the French navy will have to make a difficult choice, potentially causing the repositioning of some buildings. With, whatever happens, the problem of having to still keep a little more of Field of age, while seeing accentuated the already difficult problem of the coexistence of two generations of buildings for which the training of seafarers, capacity and up at employment concept are very different. In short, a beautiful puzzle in perspective.
Cap on FTI
Especially since this Egyptian project still blurs a little more configuration of the future French frigate fleet. Already on 11 FREMM ordered, there is greater world to believe that the series will go beyond 8 units, including two with reinforced anti-aircraft capabilities. The fate of the last three should officially be fixed in 2016. Beyond these three boats, it is worth asking if a new FREMM will be controlled in case of sale of Normandy. It is not certain. Because the money saved by this, not to mention other potential contracts frigates (Saudi Arabia, Qatar) could help to anticipate the launch of future intermediate size frigates (FTI), including only studies are currently budgeted in the current military planning law (2014-2019). For industrial, DCNS in mind, this program is important because it must enable the engineering work on a new project and develop a less complex construction and therefore assumed more readily salable in export. So the sooner the better, especially as one of the great innovations of the FTI, integrated radar mast with flat faces, will be technically ready by the end of the decade. For this purpose, the R & D efforts have recently focused mainly through the plan Topside studies and radar Sea Fire 500 of Thales. To replace all or part of Lafayette during the next decade, FTI could therefore emerge earlier. This does not pose a problem for which DCNS industrial facilities initially calibrated to produce a frigate every 7 months, may well absorb FTI plus FREMM, the production rate will be increased to one every one the 12 months. The target would be five or six FTI which, in addition to two air defense frigates of the Horizon type and FREMM, would achieve the format of 15 leading frigates set by the last white paper on defense.
Visual navigation for the French sailors
All this is of course only assumptions or reflections in a situation that is becoming quite cloudy and in which we must recognize that the French Navy has little medium-term visibility. With a reduced fleet and in some cases out of breath, just as the many missions and even growing needs of amputees programs, delayed and potentially punctured for export and bailing out the state coffers, the constant threat of a financial skid LPM which impose new cuts, an economic situation that is not improving and fears other restrictions, not to mention the case of Russian PCBs which we do not know the outcome ... visibility is now as good as for a full fog without radar navigation.
A multi-mission frigate built for the Navy could change and become Egyptian pavilion. The information circulating in well-informed circles for some time and we were implicitly echoed in an article dated November 21. However, we decided not to specifically mention the desire to acquire Cairo FREMM, which come from the stock of French frigates to do no harm to always sensitive negotiations for projects subject to strong competition. Before arriving in Paris, the Egyptian president, who had lunch yesterday with Francois Hollande, for example, was in Rome, which also is looking to sell the Italian version of the multi-mission frigate.
Delivery in 2015 after changes?
So these are our colleagues at La Tribune who dropped the piece yesterday afternoon, revealing that Normandy second French FREMM, would likely be sold to Egypt for delivery in 2015, Cairo wishing to have a new frigate very quickly. This acquisition, which is not officially confirmed, would be in addition to the four corvettes 2,500 tons of Gowind kind commissioned this year. The first, which will be conducted by DCNS in Lorient, to be delivered in the summer of 2017, while three are to be built locally, technology transfer. Discussions are also continuing to extend the contract with two additional units manufactured as the top seed in France.
To return to Normandy, whose delivery to the Navy is expected in the coming weeks, his possible transfer to Egypt require changes. It would, in particular, land the launch facilities cruise missiles MdCN (16 cells) and optionally change silos for surface to air missiles Aster, knowing that the frigate already has 16 cells for Aster 15. It would, Furthermore, different systems need to adapt to Egyptian standards, starting with communications. And, of course, the training of the crew, which would probably be one of the great challenges of such a contract given the timetable described.
Implications for the Navy
If it were to be confirmed, the transfer of the French frigate would not be without consequences for the Navy, which would see again his second FREMM sold for export. It must indeed not forget that the first Normandy was bought by Morocco, which has type-approved in early 2014 under the name of Mohammed VI. A sale in a very tight budgetary situation, allowed the Ministry of Defence to defer part of investments related to the FREMM program logic also applies in the case of Egypt.
Regarding the French navy therefore, the potential sale of Normandy poses several problems. First, the building must be reinforced by the Brest-seeded Aquitaine, delivered by DCNS in November 2012 and is to be admitted to active service this winter. The capabilities of the two buildings are expected, especially for the protection of nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines of the Strategic Oceanic Force. This, while the anti-submarine frigate Georges Leygues and De Grasse were disarmed in 2012, leaving the Primauguet Brest, La Motte-Picquet and Latouche Treville. A situation which, moreover, could leave imagine whether instead the third French FREMM, Provence (currently in trials for delivery in 2015), or even the next, the Languedoc (available in 2016), which was sold to Egypt. But, ultimately, it would be the Normandie that chosen, probably due to timing issues.
Whereby puncturing a frigate for Atlantic or intended for Mediterranean based arises in any case problems. Because there is not the need to Brest in ASM resources arises. At Toulon, following the withdrawal of the service this year Dupleix, it remains only two anti-submarine frigates, Montcalm and Jean de Vienne, which will be disarmed within the next few years, and one of whose tasks main is escorting the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle. Therefore it was decided to base the Provence and Languedoc in Toulon.
If the sale of Normandy is confirmed, the French navy will have to make a difficult choice, potentially causing the repositioning of some buildings. With, whatever happens, the problem of having to still keep a little more of Field of age, while seeing accentuated the already difficult problem of the coexistence of two generations of buildings for which the training of seafarers, capacity and up at employment concept are very different. In short, a beautiful puzzle in perspective.
Cap on FTI
Especially since this Egyptian project still blurs a little more configuration of the future French frigate fleet. Already on 11 FREMM ordered, there is greater world to believe that the series will go beyond 8 units, including two with reinforced anti-aircraft capabilities. The fate of the last three should officially be fixed in 2016. Beyond these three boats, it is worth asking if a new FREMM will be controlled in case of sale of Normandy. It is not certain. Because the money saved by this, not to mention other potential contracts frigates (Saudi Arabia, Qatar) could help to anticipate the launch of future intermediate size frigates (FTI), including only studies are currently budgeted in the current military planning law (2014-2019). For industrial, DCNS in mind, this program is important because it must enable the engineering work on a new project and develop a less complex construction and therefore assumed more readily salable in export. So the sooner the better, especially as one of the great innovations of the FTI, integrated radar mast with flat faces, will be technically ready by the end of the decade. For this purpose, the R & D efforts have recently focused mainly through the plan Topside studies and radar Sea Fire 500 of Thales. To replace all or part of Lafayette during the next decade, FTI could therefore emerge earlier. This does not pose a problem for which DCNS industrial facilities initially calibrated to produce a frigate every 7 months, may well absorb FTI plus FREMM, the production rate will be increased to one every one the 12 months. The target would be five or six FTI which, in addition to two air defense frigates of the Horizon type and FREMM, would achieve the format of 15 leading frigates set by the last white paper on defense.
Visual navigation for the French sailors
All this is of course only assumptions or reflections in a situation that is becoming quite cloudy and in which we must recognize that the French Navy has little medium-term visibility. With a reduced fleet and in some cases out of breath, just as the many missions and even growing needs of amputees programs, delayed and potentially punctured for export and bailing out the state coffers, the constant threat of a financial skid LPM which impose new cuts, an economic situation that is not improving and fears other restrictions, not to mention the case of Russian PCBs which we do not know the outcome ... visibility is now as good as for a full fog without radar navigation.
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لمؤخذه حضرتك عرفت منين الكلام دا كنت قاعد معاهم وانا معرفش مثلا
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مفيش حاجه اسمها نفاضل سلاح على سلاح عشان سرعة التسليم المفاضله بين انواع الاسلحه بيبقى على اتمامه للمهمه بنسبه 100% او لا
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مهمة ايه .. مفيش فروق كبيرة بين الفريم الايطالي والفرنسي .. اعتقد ان ما جعل العرض الفرنسي هو الاقرب هو ميعاد التسليم
اما نزع الاسكالب فلو قريت الكلام الملون بالاحمر في الخبر المترجم بالاعلى فستجده يذكر هذا الكلام للاسف
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طبيعى يتم نزع الاسكالب ذو مدى 1000 كيلو واستبداله بالسكالب التصديرى مدى 300 كيلو..........
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ازاى مفيش فرق بين الاتنين اذا كان التسليح بيختلف بين الاتنين والرادار مختلف
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هذا دليل على ما قلته من قبل ( تركيب خلايا استر 30 مكان خلايا سكالب نافال ) ما يتطلب تغيير الرادار .
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السكالب ليس مشكلة على الاطلاق فمصر تستطيع توفير بديل له لكن المهم دمج استر 30 يفرق كثيرا معنا .
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من وجهة نظرى المتواضعة ومن خلال ما اراه من اخبار عن الصفقات الاخيره , ( جويند / فريم ) واضح ان الهدف المصرى هو تكوين مجموعة قتالية مستقلة بذاتها تتكون من كورفيتات جويند وبقيادة الفريم , وبناء عليه من الممكن ان يكون اولويات القيادة المصرية هى تجهيز الفريم باجهزة الاتصالات والرادارات والقيادة والسيطرة اكثر من التسليح , فمن الممكن جدا ان يتنوع تسليح الجويند الـ 6 ما بين ( تسليح مضاد للغواصات بامتياز/ وتسليح مضاد للقطع البحرية بامتياز/ وتسليح دفاع جوى بامتياز ) , فمثلا لو افترضنا ان الـ 6 قطع جويند سينقسموا الى 3 مجموعات كل مجموعة تتكون من 2 كورفيت وكل مجموعة تتخصص فى مجال من الثلاث مجالات السابق ذكرهم , وكل ذلك تحت قيادة درة التكنولوجيا الفرنسية الفريم كسفينة قيادة وسيطرة على المجموعات الثلاث وفى نفس الوقت دعم لاى مجموعة من الثلاث مجموعات فى مهامهم اذا اقتضى الامر خصوصا وان الفريم كما ذكر الخبر التركيز المصرى والتعديل عليها لتصبح متعددة المهام بامتياز يعنى ( مضادة : للغواصات / للقطع البحرية / للطائرات والصواريخ / وقاذفة للسواحل اذا اقتضى الامر ) , واذا افترضنا شراء حاملة مروحيات كما تقول الاخبار ودخول غواصتين تايب المانى للخدمة فنحن نتحدث عن مجموعة قتال بحرى شرسة للغاية ومستقلة بذاتها كما يمكن ان تنضم اليهم الامباسادور خصوصا وان الرادار الرئيسى لهم واغلب الالكترونيات من شركة تاليس مما يعنى توافق اثناء العمل كمنظومة واحدة غربية , وذلك يجعلنى افكر فى ما قاله احد الاخوه هنا عن طموح ابو غزالة رحمه الله فى تكوين اسطولين بحريين واحد للبحر الاحمر والاخر للبحر المتوسط , نستطيع ان نفكر الان ان السيسى يتجه نحو تكوين اسطولين بحريين غاية فى القوة احدهما غربى والاخر شرقى , وذلك يتماشى مع تخطيط القيادة وتصريحاتها فى الفترة الاخيرة عن دعم الخليج ضد اى تهديد محتمل وذلك بالطبع يحتاج الى قوات تستطيع العمل باستقلالية بعيد عن سواحلك ومياهك الاقليمية لفترات ليست بالبسيطة , الايام القادمة ستثبت الكثير والكثير مما هو موجود بداخل عقلية الرئيس السيسى وقيادة القوات المسلحة وخصوصا هيئة التسليح .
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تغيير الردار غير ممكن في الوقت الحالي اخي الدرع بسبب الحاجة للقيام بتعديلات على البدن وهذا تقريبا غير ممكن لان النورماندي مكتملة ومجهزة واعادة تأهيلها سيعتبر هدرا للوقت والمال في حين يمكن العمل على واحدة من الفرقاطات الاخرى قيد البناء لكن يمكن دمج الاستر 30 بالابقاء على الهرقليس كما في الحالة الخاصة بالاخت الصغرى للفريم الفرقاطة فورميدابل لكن هذا سيتطلب تأجيل التسليم الى ما بعد 2015 لانه سيتطلب تغيير جدري في النضم الحالية المركية داخليا في الفريم asm .
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تستاهل طبعاً ولو فيه كلمة اكثر من تستاهل هقولها
لكن لم اجد في القاموس تحياتي لك
لكن لم اجد في القاموس تحياتي لك
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لن يتطلب كثير من الوقت و افتتاح قناة السويس سيكون في اغسطس 2015 امامك فترة كافيه جدا و اعتقد انهم اضافوا على السعر مبلغ كبير لذالك السبب و من الطبيعي انهم طالما لا يصدرون سكالب لنا سيضعون مكانه شيئ اخر فنزع خلايا السكالب بالنسبه لهم مهم و تركيب خلايا استر لنا كذالك و اعتقد ان المفوضات ليست وليدة زيارة الرئيس السيسي بل منذ ما يقرب 6 شهور و هناك اتفاق مبدئي ولكن لم توقع عقود نهائيه كل ما في الامر هو انه تم الاعلان تزامنا مع زيارة الرئيس و من وجهة نظري سيتبعها فريم اخري ليكون العدد 2 على الاقل , و بخصوص الرافال التسليم لاول دفعه سيكون منتصف 2015 دليل ايضا ان المفاوضات عليها منذ فترة
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بالمقارنة بالصواريخ الحديثة جدا ايوه طبعا
