موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

اعذرني على كلامي هذا :
انا اتيت بمصادري وبراهيني التي استطعت جمعها
ومن حقي عدم تصديق اي شيء الا بمصادره الموثوقه مصداقا لقوله تعالى : { قُلْ هَاتُوا بُرْهَانَكُمْ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ صَادِقِينَ} صدق الله العظيم .

ليكن مستوانا احترافيا في المنتدى العربي للدفاع والتسليح ولنذكر مصادرنا عند الحديث في كل المجالات وتقبل تحياتي

يا أخي تصديقي أو عدم تصديقي هذا شيء راجع لك ,, أنا أتكلم من باب المعرفة ومما شاهدته بعيني

لكن غالبا أنا أكتب بشكل مستعجل لضيق الوقت فعملي لا يرحم وبعض الأحيان لا أنتهي منه إلا عند التاسعة مساء فلا وقت لدي لتصفح المواقع وعمليات القص واللصق ,,

أي نقطة أذكرها من حقك التأكد منها أو سؤال الأخوة عنها وبإمكانك سؤال الأخ berkut-su فهو لا يمزح في هذه الأمور ,,

بالمناسبة أنا حاليا أكتب لك من ورشة صيانة سيارات ,, صحيح مكان غير مناسب لتجميع الأفكار بسبب الطيخ والطراخ وشغل وطفي وغيرها من الأسباب .. لكن فرصة مناسبة لتصفح الموقع والرد على الأعضاء بسرعة :a030[2]:
 
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

ألستم من سطرتم صفحات واقسمتم بالله جهد ايمانكم بان الرافال لا تستطيع ضرب اهداف متحركة :walw[1]:

يا أخي راجع ردودي أنا قلت قبل 2-3 سنوات وليس حاليا

ولكن ألست معي بأن طائرة خرجت للعلن عام 1986 ولم تستطع ضرب قنابل موجهه بالليزر سوى قبل 3 سنوات أمر يسيء للطائرة بصفتها omni-role أو متعددة المهام كما تقول الشركة ؟؟!!
 
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

ساتيه بالبراهين من داسو نفسها لاحقا >

الان التحدي الكيبير اخي كملجسم ...............اذا اعطيتك المصادر كلها التي عندي .........هل ستعترف بالامر ام لا ؟؟
 
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

ساتيه بالبراهين من داسو نفسها لاحقا >

الان التحدي الكيبير اخي كملجسم ...............اذا اعطيتك المصادر كلها التي عندي .........هل ستعترف بالامر ام لا ؟؟

طبعا امزح معك .........لا يوجد تحدي هنا ..فانا لست وكيل الف15 في الشرق الاوسط ...............لكن هل ستعترف بانها لا تزال خرقاء ام لا ؟؟
 
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

طبعا امزح معك .........لا يوجد تحدي هنا ..فانا لست وكيل الف15 في الشرق الاوسط ...............لكن هل ستعترف بانها لا تزال خرقاء ام لا ؟؟

أتمى أن يقتنع الأخ كملجسم >> مندوب شركة داسو :bleh[1]:

بالمناسبة >>وكالة boeing لدى الأخ تقنية :ANSmile04[1]:
 
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

أتمى أن يقتنع الأخ كملجسم >> مندوب شركة داسو :bleh[1]:

بالمناسبة >>وكالة boeing لدى الأخ تقنية :ANSmile04[1]:

ههههههههههه والكنسورتيوم Eurofighter بتكون عندك :yahoo[1]:
 
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

سأخبرك بالقوات البرية ... نحن حاليا نشغل دبابات amx-30 فرنسية الصنع ..هي جيدة من ناحية التصويب لكن من ناحية الصيانة سيئة لأبعد حد ,,,, تخيل فيها 2 سلف تشغيل لو تعطل واحد مستحيل يشتغل الثاني خخخخخخخخخ لذلك لن نشاهد سلاح بري فرنسي يخدم بعد اليوم في سلاح المدرعات السعودي !! فالأمر يتعلق بالجودة وليس صعوبة تنوع المصادر كما ذكر التقرير أعلاه !!

هذه اللوكليرك تعمل بكفاءة في الامارات : الاسباب : الصيانة الممتازة والroutine checks لهذه الدبابة جعل من عمليانيتها امرا لا غبار عليه في الامارات..الاهم كيف تعامل معدّاتك وكيف تصينها ..
من ناحية باقي التقرير المتعلق بشراء السلاح من بريطانيا مقابل الدعم السياسي ..هذا شيء لاشك فيه السياسة جزء لا يتجزأ من أي صفقة .. أي صفقة تنفذها من الذكاء أن تكون مكاسبها متكامله سياسيا إقتصادايا + عسكريا لكن إذا كان السلاح لا يلبي مطالبي العسكرية مع السلامة

وليس لمجرد ما ورد في التقرير بأن الهدف سياسي مع بريطانيا .. لو كان هذا الأمر صحيح فلماذا الأسطول الغربي السعودي فرنسي بالكامل ؟؟!!
انتم ادرى بشعابكم ياتايفون ولكل ذوق ورأي في السلع

وبالمناسبة الرافال خاضت منافسات المناقصة السعودية قبل التايفون ورأيناهم بأم أعيننا في قاعدة الملك خالد في جنوب السعودية عام 2005 .. لكن لعدم تلبيتها طموح القوات الجوية تم التخلي عنها ,,وليس للأسباب التي ذكرتها
هناك فرق بين من يمتلك مركزا للحرب الجوية وخبراء للتقييم وتحت عينيه 3 طائرات رافال تطير باستمرار وبطيارين اماراتيين وشاركت في تمارين atlc الشهيرة
هنا المزيد عما فعلته الرافال في تلك الذكرى الجميلة :

هذه احدى صورها تطبق على اف22 في تمرين atlc 2009 الذي اقيم بالامارات - قاعدة الضفرة الجوية
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الatlc : Advanced tactical leadership cource ليس مجرد طيران مع طائرات مختلفة بل احتكاك ونظرة عن قرب على الاداء بعدة محاور ومستويات ....هذا هو التقييم الحقيقي ياتايفون ..
الجواب هو ماتراه عينك ..لاما تسمعه باذنك ..
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the french air force will deploy 3 rafale f3 permanently at the al-dhafra air base ( ba104 ) in the uae
3 طائرات رافال مقيمة بصورة دائمة في قاعدة الظفرة الجوية ( الا تظن انها فترة كافية لنعرف عيوبها وهي امام اعيننا ؟؟ )



وهذا الحاصل في صفقة التايفون أستفدنا سياسيا وإقتصاديا وعسكريا ..لكن ما أشاهده في صفقة الرافال أنها ناقصة فالحكومة الإماراتية أستفادت سياسيا وإقتصاديا عن طريق فتح السوق الفرنسية و سوق النقل للشركات الإماراتية لكن عسكريا الطائرة ليست بمستوى الطموح ولا تلبي الطلبات الإماراتية >> فهمت الأن
انتم ادرى بشعابكم كما قلت .. اما عن الامارات فالموضوع ليس محصورا بحقوق هبوط الناقلات الاماراتية فحسب . بل هناك نقل التكنولوجيا في قطاع صناعات الدفاع وفي الاقتصاد والثقافة والسياسة ( شامل كالرافال الomnirole , )اما انها ليست بمستوى الطموح ولاتلبي الطلبات الاماراتية فهو امر متروك للقيادة الاماراتية لتحديده ,, واتمنى ان ترضخ داسو للمتطلبات التقنية الاماراتية ( الصارمة ) .. لان اللمسة الاماراتية يجب ان توضع في مانقتنيه ...لسنا كغيرنا ممن يشتري على الجاهز وهذا مايفسّر طموحاتنا العالية فيها وصعوبة المفاوضات ... انها الطراز f4 من الرافال ياتايفون ..

ردودي بالاحمر اعلاه وتقبل تحياتي
 
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

يا اخي اوضحنا مائة مرة ان المقصود اهداف برية وبحرية متحركة بصواريخ موجهه بالردار وليس باليزر..........
لا ازال في انتظار امثلة على هذه القنابل الموجهة بالرادار التي تستهدف الاهداف البرية والبحرية المتحركه ..زادك الله علما وافاد بعلمك المتواضعين من امثالي

باليزر عانت كثيرا ايضا . وتقول داسو انها اصلحت المشكلة ..............لكن الامارات تطالبها بقدرات ضرب اهداف بحرية وبرية متحركة بالردار ومن مسافات بعيدة ........................
لم اسمع بذلك من قبل .. فهل لك بوضع مصدر ان الامارات طالبتها بقدرات كهذه ( ضرب اهداف بحرية وبرية متحركة بالرادار ومن مسافات بعيده ) افاد الله بعلمك المتواضعين من امثالي

اما وضع صور من الاقمار الصناعية لدبابات ورادارات ثابتة في الجيش الليبي الذي اصلا فر ولم يقاتل احد منه الا عصبة قليلة مع القذافي فهو امر مضحك لتسويقها ..................فالدفاع الجوي الليبي نفسه كان عاجزا عن مواجهة الطائرات الامريكية في فترة الثمانينات عندما اغارت عليه طائرات قديمة جدا مقارنة مع الطائرات الامريكية الحالية ولم يستطع فعل شيء سوى اسقاط طائرة واحده ف111 واليوم وبعد 15 سنة تاتي طائرات الرافال جيل رابع لتهاجم نفس الدفاع الجوي القديم والغير مصان والغير محدث وبدون مشغلين لتصنع دعايه تسويقية !!!!!!
لنفترض انهم كانوا موجودين وقاتلوا ( خصوصا اول يوم بعد اقرار مجلس الامن التدخل العسكري في ليبيا ) , لنفترض ان القيادة لازالت متماسكة وفي حالة تأهب قصوى ..اي دولة كانت لتفعل نفس الشيء .
هناك من يقول :
وهنا رأي مؤيد:
الرافال كانت اول من دخل العمليات في ليبيا ( لوحدها ) بينما كانت الدفاعات والرادارات الليبية ( في جهوزية تامه ) .. بدون اي مرافقة او دعم متخصص في الحرب الالكترونية ..
The first operations in libya, were made by rafales alone (while libyan radars and air defence were fully operational) without escorts, or dedicated ew support!
ووضعت لك مصادر كثيرة لم تلتفت لها ...لابأس .
الصور عن استهداف قواعد للدفاع الجوي من نوع sa-3 >>>بصراحه لا ادري هل كانت مأهولة ام لا ولكن يكفي الرافال شرفا انها ( غامرت ) ودمّرتها مع العلم انها ( قد ) تكون مأهوله.



للان الاخ كملجسم لم يجب عن الاسئلة والملاحظات الماضية كلها حول رفض الامارات والكويت لها وغيرها من الدول ................................
الامارات متفرّدة بطريقة اختيار سلاحها يا بيركوت واظنك تعلم ذلك جيدا ....نريد نسخة متفوقة تدعى f4
هنا موضوع اسمه : هل تقتني الامارات رافال f4 ( الجيل الخامس )
http://defense-arab.com/vb/showthread.php?t=29168
انصحك باعادة قراءته ...
اما رفض الامارات ....هذه اول مره اسمع بها ..
قلنا ان ماجرى ليس رفضا صريحا للطائرة والا لتم اعلان ذلك بصورة واضحه ..
انا اراها ( قرصة اذن ) بسبب غطرسة داسو ..لعل وعسى ان تستجيب للمتطلبات الاماراتية الصارمة
راجع معي تصريح ولي عهد ابوظبي صاحب السمو الشيخ محمد بن زايد آل نهيان حفظه الله ورعاه :

وأضاف ان داسو للاسف لا تدرك فيما يبدو أن كل الارادة الدبلوماسية والسياسية في العالم لا يمكنها التغلب على شروط تجارية غير تنافسية وغير عملية.



اذا المطلوب يا داسو ان تحسّني الشروط التجارية ( السعر ) والتنافسية ( المواصفات التي نريدها ) , العملية ( كوني منطقية وكفي عن الغطرسه ) ..هذا ما أفهمه شخصيا وهذا رأيي المتواضع .
عموما لايوجد تصريح واضح برفض الرافال لا من الامارات ولا من داسو ...
...لننتظر ونرى ماستسفر عنه الامور ..

ردودي المتواضعه بالاحمر اعلاه ...
 
التعديل الأخير:
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

أتمى أن يقتنع الأخ كملجسم >> مندوب شركة داسو :bleh[1]:

بالمناسبة >>وكالة boeing لدى الأخ تقنية :ansmile04[1]:

انا سهل الاقناع يا اخ تايفون ....
لكن ان توصف بالفاشلة والخرقاء وغيرها من نعوت التقليل والاستخفاف فهذا مشين بحق طائرة تعتبر آخر انتاج الفرنسيين صنّاع الميراج الشهيرة ..
هذا ما اجده صعب الاقناع ...حقيقة
 
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

للان الاخ كملجسم لم يجب عن الاسئلة والملاحظات الماضية كلها حول رفض الامارات والكويت لها وغيرها من الدول ................................
الامارات متفرّدة بطريقة اختيار سلاحها يا بيركوت واظنك تعلم ذلك جيدا ....نريد نسخة متفوقة تدعى f4
هنا موضوع اسمه : هل تقتني الامارات رافال f4 ( الجيل الخامس )


في البداية اشكر الاخوان typhon99 و BERKUT_SU و كملجسم
على اثراء الموضوع
وبقية الاخوان المشاركين

الحقيقة مداخلتي قصيرة

اخي كملجسم انت تمدح الرافال وعندما سئلك الاخ بركوت برفض الامارات والكويت لها قلت له لا
نحن نريد رافال f4
اذا انت تمدح الرافال وبنفس الوقت تقول نحن نريد طائرة اخرى وهي رافال f4
والتي الى الان لم تقم فرنسا باصلاح عيوب f3
حسب طلباتكم
اذا انا اتمنى للامارات ان تتوجه الى الاف35 ( الجيل الخامس )
افضل من الترقيع على هذه الطائرة
هذا غير تصميمها الذي لا يقبل الترقيع مستقبلا وهنا النقطة المهمة
هل الطائرة قابلة للتطوير مستقبلا

وشكرا
 
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

هذه المصادر ومن اعلى المناصب في فرنسا----------هذه ليست كل المصادر ...هناك اكثر عن مشاكل الحرارة والتصميم واليزر الخ ...........لكن اقرا جيدا عن المشاكل الرئيسية وهي المحرك -الرادر -السعر وغيرها

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Awaiting the UAE
DSI special edition , August 2010


With the general Alain SILVY
Deputy Chief Plans within the Staff of the Air Force.

The french government took the pledge with the Rafale manufacturer to ensure, whatever happens, a minimum annual rate of 11 aircrafts. A rate estimated by the manufacturer as the floor below which it would not be possible to go without calling into question the economy of the program, including the unit cost of these aircrafts. The LPM (Law of Military Planning) not providing matching funds for the purchase of these machines for the years 2013 and 2014, either export allow very opportunely to keep the commitment to the industry, or export is lacking and the french state must find the necessary budgets by reducing or eliminating other programs. Is this commitment based on obtaining export orders a dangerous bet?

Alain Silvy: Let's be honest. This "bet", to use your word, on short-term obtaining of export orders for the Rafale, has nevertheless allowed to complete the LPM allowing the planning of a big hole in the shipment for the Air Force and the Navy without questioning the production rate, already reduced to the minimum industrially acceptable by Dassault Aviation. Deliveries to the French armies should be reduced to only 2 or 3 machines per year for a time, the export bringing the complement to reach the threshold of 11 Rafale produced per year. In case of absence of export order, the situation would become obviously complicated.[…] We would have to find a substantial funding of several hundred million euros. […]

But how to find the hundreds of millions euros in question?

The 3 armies have all benefited from the choice made by the planners of the LPM to reduce to a very low level the Rafale deliveries. The amount saved have been reallocated to the 3 armies. I think nobody questions it. We should have to find the funds by making new balancing within the LPM […] we must now hope that will come very quickly a first export order. […] But export is not neutral. Potential customers, including UAE, have specific requirements with developments leaving the French standards - and therefore with budget not taken into account by the LPM - they want cofinanced by the French state. That could require for France to find further funding for the Rafale program […]

What would be the cost for France of these additional co-development to fund with a potential UAE customer?

One hears everything and its opposite. Everything depends on what one includes. Personally, I do not give precise figures. But this is obviously something like several hundreds of millions of euros paid by the french state.

Is the Air force interested by some of the UAE requirements ?

From my point of view, it depends where. We could be potentially interested by the M88-X with 9 tons of thrust because it would be, in the circumstances, an open field. But, on the other hand, we have not yet reached the stage of maturity - which requires about 150,000 flight hours – with the current M88 with 7.5 tonnes thrust. This means that with the M88-X, even if it should presumptively enjoy a good community with the existing M88, we would have to accumulate even more hours to reach the stage of maturity of the engine.
Very clearly, in my opinion, the M88-X is not for the Air force an immediate need. In order to sell the Rafale to the UAE, the Defense may ultimately be asked to acquire the M88-X in a quantity and on terms still to define. And we'll maybe even happy to use it. But today we have no technical or operational reasons to make it available for us.The gain expected from the arrival of a more powerful engine is lower than the risks we would go with the technical immaturity of new modules and the management in parallel - so complicated in terms of logistics and operational employment of aircraft with different performances –of two relatively different parks of M88. All this must be thorough.

Would it be possible to see Safran manufacturing M88-X for UAE and continue to deliver “classic” M88 for the french Rafale? And this notwithstanding that the french government would have co-funded the development of the M88-X

It is not forbidden to imagine it. On condition, however, that to maintain the parallel production of two versions of M88 does not cost more than producing a single model. The support costs must not explode. Safran must tell us very quickly and very frankly what it would be. And again, nothing force us to equip the whole fleet of Rafale, Air and/or Marine.


And about the UAE demand to have a more powerful RBE2 radar, could it answer to some expectations for the Air force?

The Air Force is interested in having a RBE2 with an active antenna. It is now established with the powerful AESA antenna which will equip our tranche 4 Rafale. What the Emirians are calling for is much more complex. They want, in addition to the AESA, to have new functionalities on their Rafale, such as GMTT / GMTI (detection and tracking of moving ground target), interlacing between air/air and air/ground modes, etc.. Even if this is not for us an urgent need, the operational 'plus' obtained could nonetheless eventually interest us. However, the key Emirian demand is about the range of the RBE2. And, with the same antenna diameter, the only way to achieve the 10% range increase (compared with the Basic AESA F3 "roadmap") that wish to obtain the Emirians, is a big boost to the power of the radar.

But more power to the RBE2, could it be a risk to generate serious electromagnetic interference (EMI) with the SPECTRA receptors ?

There is indeed a very real EMI risk to treat. This is the case whenever we want to change aircraft emission systems. There are solutions, obviously, but this will require to reexamine SPECTRA. But the biggest problem we have identified is about electric generation, which could be insufficient. To increase the maximum range of a few nautical miles, we would have to deeply review the electrical generation system of the aircraft.
In short, to conceive what it could be a Rafale-9, that is to say a new aircraft moving away from the similarity you want with french Rafale. The Emirati experts participating in negotiations are well aware of the problem. But they are also used to have very high quality weapons systems. They want to avoid any regression with the Rafale, at least on the radar range, compared to the F-16 Block 60, the Rafale having also many other qualities. The Emirians don’t have AWACS and therefore want - it is a fundamental requirement - that the Rafale can see very far. Beyond the radar, they are showing fairly strong requirements into SPECTRA development with, for example, the expansion of some frequency bands, an increased sensitivity, adding functionalities; in short, they want we push up the current technologies. Of course, to improve the electronic warfare of our Rafale faster than originally planned could be an additional operational advantage for the Air force. However, our current approach is to consolidate the features implemented in SPECTRA, to make them more robust and make it easier for operators and programmers before wanting to go further into addition of new capabilities. The current SPECTRA is working well and even very good. In sum, what separates us, about Spectra, is a matter of timing and calendar […]. In a more general way, we share the same wishes about capabilities, but with very different maturities calendar sometimes. Budgetary constraints remain a dimensioning factor.


The Emirians want a viewfinder-HMD ...

It's true. And ourselves, one way or another, we will. For various reasons, we agreed in the past to not use it initially, but this equipment is now an almost indispensable element for modern combat aircraft. Besides various prospects of the Rafale - the UAE, Brazil and Switzerland – also want it, confirming this analysis.

In the end, what about the eventuality of a Rafale order by the UAE?

Very sincerely, and seen from my place, I think we're really not very far from being able to reach a common ground with our UAE friends. The only pertinent question to be asked is whether the will of similarity expressed by the Emirians will prevail over their performance requirement If performance is what counts, in fact we’ll get two quite different Rafale - as with the Mirage 2000-9 - because the french state can not or do not want to follow it. If the community is paramount, the Emirians will have to reduce their ambitions with regard to performance. The choice is now in their hands. They must see if their operational necessities allow them or not to settle for a weapon system fairly close to the F3 "roadmap" French standard. They must decide whether they consider more important to work very closely with us. I know they have already expressed the wish, in case of order, to be able to send their pilots very quickly in our Rafale units where they could train, learn the Rafale and our tactical employment. To obtain a rapid operational rise of their own Rafale squadron. in that case their Rafale configuration and ours must not be very different. But it remains to be seen ... That is where we are I think
.
How long would require the additional developments required by the UAE?

It is difficult to answer precisely this question, especially since I do not have all the elements of the problematic. The first UAE aircraft would not be delivered before 2014. This period should be sufficient to finish to develop a 9 tons M-88. About the radar, we would not probably have in 2014 all the capabilities and performance expected, but they would, I think, nevertheless be already very close to the target. The problem of electric generation requires also time to be processed. This will be a heavy operation for the aircraft. In the case of an order signed this year, we would therefore have some years to develop the additional features. These years should not be wasted. In any case, I think the discussions with Emirians take place on a sound footing. Their negotiators are experts who know exactly what is fighter plane and are aware of the state of the art and of various constraints. Talking to people at this level is very pleasant for the Air Force. However, now the order must materialize.


What about the UAE Mirage 2000-9 ?

The French authorities have been very clear on this subject. Once the Rafale ordered by UAE, the Mirage 2000-9 will be taken back by France which will issue them to a defeasance agency in charge of their resale export. This means that in this hypothesis, it is not envisaged that they equip the French Army.

But would it be interesting for the Army because these are recent cells with advanced weapons systems ?

We can not say that we feel no interest in these machines, because their weapons system displays really astonishing performance. The Air Force could certainly benefit. However, the indispensable work for NATO compatibility on these weapons systems would be very heavy with a cost probably exceeding the one - 700 millions euros - planned for the renovation of our Mirage 2000D, which is a priority for us.

If the UAE buy the Rafale, could the Rafale Transformation Squadron (ETR), which will be created in Saint-Dizier, be relocated at Al-Dhafra to help UAE pilots and benefit from the excellent local weather conditions ?

Why not? but we are not there yet. […] To install the ETR – as a whole or just a part - at Al-Dhafra could be an asset. Our first participation, last autumn, to the ATLC (Advanced Tactical Leadership Course) organized by the UAE Air Warfare Center, has once again demonstrated the richness of such exchanges. If the UAE order the Rafale, we may have to quickly take charge, in a way or another, of the transformation of their pilots on our weapon system. Doing it at Al-Dhafra would be - and this is only my opinion - interesting.

Interview by Jean-Louis Prome
 
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

هذه المصادر ومن اعلى المناصب في فرنسا----------هذه ليست كل المصادر ...هناك اكثر عن مشاكل الحرارة والتصميم واليزر الخ ...........لكن اقرا جيدا عن المشاكل الرئيسية وهي المحرك -الرادر -السعر وغيرها

dsi4.jpg


dsi3.jpg


dsi2b.jpg


dsi1w.jpg



Awaiting the UAE
DSI special edition , August 2010


With the general Alain SILVY
Deputy Chief Plans within the Staff of the Air Force.

The french government took the pledge with the Rafale manufacturer to ensure, whatever happens, a minimum annual rate of 11 aircrafts. A rate estimated by the manufacturer as the floor below which it would not be possible to go without calling into question the economy of the program, including the unit cost of these aircrafts. The LPM (Law of Military Planning) not providing matching funds for the purchase of these machines for the years 2013 and 2014, either export allow very opportunely to keep the commitment to the industry, or export is lacking and the french state must find the necessary budgets by reducing or eliminating other programs. Is this commitment based on obtaining export orders a dangerous bet?

Alain Silvy: Let's be honest. This "bet", to use your word, on short-term obtaining of export orders for the Rafale, has nevertheless allowed to complete the LPM allowing the planning of a big hole in the shipment for the Air Force and the Navy without questioning the production rate, already reduced to the minimum industrially acceptable by Dassault Aviation. Deliveries to the French armies should be reduced to only 2 or 3 machines per year for a time, the export bringing the complement to reach the threshold of 11 Rafale produced per year. In case of absence of export order, the situation would become obviously complicated.[…] We would have to find a substantial funding of several hundred million euros. […]

But how to find the hundreds of millions euros in question?

The 3 armies have all benefited from the choice made by the planners of the LPM to reduce to a very low level the Rafale deliveries. The amount saved have been reallocated to the 3 armies. I think nobody questions it. We should have to find the funds by making new balancing within the LPM […] we must now hope that will come very quickly a first export order. […] But export is not neutral. Potential customers, including UAE, have specific requirements with developments leaving the French standards - and therefore with budget not taken into account by the LPM - they want cofinanced by the French state. That could require for France to find further funding for the Rafale program […]

What would be the cost for France of these additional co-development to fund with a potential UAE customer?

One hears everything and its opposite. Everything depends on what one includes. Personally, I do not give precise figures. But this is obviously something like several hundreds of millions of euros paid by the french state.

Is the Air force interested by some of the UAE requirements ?

From my point of view, it depends where. We could be potentially interested by the M88-X with 9 tons of thrust because it would be, in the circumstances, an open field. But, on the other hand, we have not yet reached the stage of maturity - which requires about 150,000 flight hours – with the current M88 with 7.5 tonnes thrust. This means that with the M88-X, even if it should presumptively enjoy a good community with the existing M88, we would have to accumulate even more hours to reach the stage of maturity of the engine.
Very clearly, in my opinion, the M88-X is not for the Air force an immediate need. In order to sell the Rafale to the UAE, the Defense may ultimately be asked to acquire the M88-X in a quantity and on terms still to define. And we'll maybe even happy to use it. But today we have no technical or operational reasons to make it available for us.The gain expected from the arrival of a more powerful engine is lower than the risks we would go with the technical immaturity of new modules and the management in parallel - so complicated in terms of logistics and operational employment of aircraft with different performances –of two relatively different parks of M88. All this must be thorough.

Would it be possible to see Safran manufacturing M88-X for UAE and continue to deliver “classic” M88 for the french Rafale? And this notwithstanding that the french government would have co-funded the development of the M88-X

It is not forbidden to imagine it. On condition, however, that to maintain the parallel production of two versions of M88 does not cost more than producing a single model. The support costs must not explode. Safran must tell us very quickly and very frankly what it would be. And again, nothing force us to equip the whole fleet of Rafale, Air and/or Marine.


And about the UAE demand to have a more powerful RBE2 radar, could it answer to some expectations for the Air force?

The Air Force is interested in having a RBE2 with an active antenna. It is now established with the powerful AESA antenna which will equip our tranche 4 Rafale. What the Emirians are calling for is much more complex. They want, in addition to the AESA, to have new functionalities on their Rafale, such as GMTT / GMTI (detection and tracking of moving ground target), interlacing between air/air and air/ground modes, etc.. Even if this is not for us an urgent need, the operational 'plus' obtained could nonetheless eventually interest us. However, the key Emirian demand is about the range of the RBE2. And, with the same antenna diameter, the only way to achieve the 10% range increase (compared with the Basic AESA F3 "roadmap") that wish to obtain the Emirians, is a big boost to the power of the radar.

But more power to the RBE2, could it be a risk to generate serious electromagnetic interference (EMI) with the SPECTRA receptors ?

There is indeed a very real EMI risk to treat. This is the case whenever we want to change aircraft emission systems. There are solutions, obviously, but this will require to reexamine SPECTRA. But the biggest problem we have identified is about electric generation, which could be insufficient. To increase the maximum range of a few nautical miles, we would have to deeply review the electrical generation system of the aircraft.
In short, to conceive what it could be a Rafale-9, that is to say a new aircraft moving away from the similarity you want with french Rafale. The Emirati experts participating in negotiations are well aware of the problem. But they are also used to have very high quality weapons systems. They want to avoid any regression with the Rafale, at least on the radar range, compared to the F-16 Block 60, the Rafale having also many other qualities. The Emirians don’t have AWACS and therefore want - it is a fundamental requirement - that the Rafale can see very far. Beyond the radar, they are showing fairly strong requirements into SPECTRA development with, for example, the expansion of some frequency bands, an increased sensitivity, adding functionalities; in short, they want we push up the current technologies. Of course, to improve the electronic warfare of our Rafale faster than originally planned could be an additional operational advantage for the Air force. However, our current approach is to consolidate the features implemented in SPECTRA, to make them more robust and make it easier for operators and programmers before wanting to go further into addition of new capabilities. The current SPECTRA is working well and even very good. In sum, what separates us, about Spectra, is a matter of timing and calendar […]. In a more general way, we share the same wishes about capabilities, but with very different maturities calendar sometimes. Budgetary constraints remain a dimensioning factor.


The Emirians want a viewfinder-HMD ...

It's true. And ourselves, one way or another, we will. For various reasons, we agreed in the past to not use it initially, but this equipment is now an almost indispensable element for modern combat aircraft. Besides various prospects of the Rafale - the UAE, Brazil and Switzerland – also want it, confirming this analysis.

In the end, what about the eventuality of a Rafale order by the UAE?

Very sincerely, and seen from my place, I think we're really not very far from being able to reach a common ground with our UAE friends. The only pertinent question to be asked is whether the will of similarity expressed by the Emirians will prevail over their performance requirement If performance is what counts, in fact we’ll get two quite different Rafale - as with the Mirage 2000-9 - because the french state can not or do not want to follow it. If the community is paramount, the Emirians will have to reduce their ambitions with regard to performance. The choice is now in their hands. They must see if their operational necessities allow them or not to settle for a weapon system fairly close to the F3 "roadmap" French standard. They must decide whether they consider more important to work very closely with us. I know they have already expressed the wish, in case of order, to be able to send their pilots very quickly in our Rafale units where they could train, learn the Rafale and our tactical employment. To obtain a rapid operational rise of their own Rafale squadron. in that case their Rafale configuration and ours must not be very different. But it remains to be seen ... That is where we are I think
.
How long would require the additional developments required by the UAE?

It is difficult to answer precisely this question, especially since I do not have all the elements of the problematic. The first UAE aircraft would not be delivered before 2014. This period should be sufficient to finish to develop a 9 tons M-88. About the radar, we would not probably have in 2014 all the capabilities and performance expected, but they would, I think, nevertheless be already very close to the target. The problem of electric generation requires also time to be processed. This will be a heavy operation for the aircraft. In the case of an order signed this year, we would therefore have some years to develop the additional features. These years should not be wasted. In any case, I think the discussions with Emirians take place on a sound footing. Their negotiators are experts who know exactly what is fighter plane and are aware of the state of the art and of various constraints. Talking to people at this level is very pleasant for the Air Force. However, now the order must materialize.


What about the UAE Mirage 2000-9 ?

The French authorities have been very clear on this subject. Once the Rafale ordered by UAE, the Mirage 2000-9 will be taken back by France which will issue them to a defeasance agency in charge of their resale export. This means that in this hypothesis, it is not envisaged that they equip the French Army.

But would it be interesting for the Army because these are recent cells with advanced weapons systems ?

We can not say that we feel no interest in these machines, because their weapons system displays really astonishing performance. The Air Force could certainly benefit. However, the indispensable work for NATO compatibility on these weapons systems would be very heavy with a cost probably exceeding the one - 700 millions euros - planned for the renovation of our Mirage 2000D, which is a priority for us.

If the UAE buy the Rafale, could the Rafale Transformation Squadron (ETR), which will be created in Saint-Dizier, be relocated at Al-Dhafra to help UAE pilots and benefit from the excellent local weather conditions ?

Why not? but we are not there yet. […] To install the ETR – as a whole or just a part - at Al-Dhafra could be an asset. Our first participation, last autumn, to the ATLC (Advanced Tactical Leadership Course) organized by the UAE Air Warfare Center, has once again demonstrated the richness of such exchanges. If the UAE order the Rafale, we may have to quickly take charge, in a way or another, of the transformation of their pilots on our weapon system. Doing it at Al-Dhafra would be - and this is only my opinion - interesting.

Interview by Jean-Louis Prome
 
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

ارجو ان لا تكون فرنسيا ورافاليا اكثر منخم اخي كملجسم
 
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

لاحظ التاريخ 2010 اوجست واليوم نحن في 2012 والامارات لا تزال غير قاردة على تقبلها :) لهذا عندما اقول ان ف15 الجديدة وف35 متقدمة عليها سنوات فانا لا امزح
 
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

And about the UAE demand to have a more powerful RBE2 radar, could it answer to some expectations for the Air force?

The Air Force is interested in having a RBE2 with an active antenna. It is now established with the powerful AESA antenna which will equip our tranche 4 Rafale. What the Emirians are calling for is much more complex. They want, in addition to the AESA, to have new functionalities on their Rafale, such as GMTT / GMTI (detection and tracking of moving ground target), interlacing between air/air and air/ground modes, etc.. Even if this is not for us an urgent need, the operational 'plus' obtained could nonetheless eventually interest us. However, the key Emirian demand is about the range of the RBE2. And, with the same antenna diameter, the only way to achieve the 10% range increase (compared with the Basic AESA F3 "roadmap") that wish to obtain the Emirians, is a big boost to the power of the radar.

But more power to the RBE2, could it be a risk to generate serious electromagnetic interference (EMI) with the SPECTRA receptors ?

There is indeed a very real EMI risk to treat. This is the case whenever we want to change aircraft emission systems. There are solutions, obviously, but this will require to reexamine SPECTRA. But the biggest problem we have identified is about electric generation, which could be insufficient. To increase the maximum range of a few nautical miles, we would have to deeply review the electrical generation system of the aircraft.
In short, to conceive what it could be a Rafale-9, that is to say a new aircraft moving away from the similarity you want with french Rafale. The Emirati experts participating in negotiations are well aware of the problem. But they are also used to have very high quality weapons systems. They want to avoid any regression with the Rafale, at least on the radar range, compared to the F-16 Block 60, the Rafale having also many other qualities. The Emirians don’t have AWACS and therefore want - it is a fundamental requirement - that the Rafale can see very far. Beyond the radar, they are showing fairly strong requirements into SPECTRA development with, for example, the expansion of some frequency bands, an increased sensitivity, adding functionalities; in short, they want we push up the current technologies. Of course, to improve the electronic warfare of our Rafale faster than originally planned could be an additional operational advantage for the Air force. However, our current approach is to consolidate the features implemented in SPECTRA, to make them more robust and make it easier for operators and programmers before wanting to go further into addition of new capabilities. The current SPECTRA is working well and even very good. In sum, what separates us, about Spectra, is a matter of timing and calendar […]. In a more general way, we share the same wishes about capabilities, but with very different maturities calendar sometimes. Budgetary constraints remain a dimensioning factor.


لونتها بالاحمر لانها مهمة
 
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال


في البداية اشكر الاخوان typhon99 و BERKUT_SU و كملجسم
على اثراء الموضوع
وبقية الاخوان المشاركين

الحقيقة مداخلتي قصيرة

اخي كملجسم انت تمدح الرافال وعندما سئلك الاخ بركوت برفض الامارات والكويت لها قلت له لا
نحن نريد رافال f4
اذا انت تمدح الرافال وبنفس الوقت تقول نحن نريد طائرة اخرى وهي رافال f4
والتي الى الان لم تقم فرنسا باصلاح عيوب f3
حسب طلباتكم
اذا انا اتمنى للامارات ان تتوجه الى الاف35 ( الجيل الخامس )
افضل من الترقيع على هذه الطائرة
هذا غير تصميمها الذي لا يقبل الترقيع مستقبلا وهنا النقطة المهمة
هل الطائرة قابلة للتطوير مستقبلا

وشكرا

انا لا امدح احدا بل اصحح بعض المعلومات المغلوطه متى ماتوفرت لي المصادر التي تثبتها ما اقول ..
الرافال F3+ تم تلاشي جميع سلبيات F1 و F2 وتمت استعراض هذا الطراز في ليبيا مؤخرا ..
هنا اجيال الرافال :


لا ادري ماحقيقة العيوب المذكورة ..احدهم يتحدث عن اهتزازات والآخر عن حرارة البدن وقصر انف الرادار ...هل هذه العيوب فعلا حقيقة ام مجرد تحليلات شخصية ؟؟
لو اردت معرفة ماهية الطلب الاماراتي : عليك بالعودة للاف16 بلوك 60 .. كان من المستطاع والاسهل اقتناء بلوك52 ... في الميراج كان من المستطاع اقتناء 2000-5 فلماذا هذه التطويرات الخاصة (ميراج2000-9 ) ؟؟
هنا نستطيع فهم لماذا الامارات مصرة على ( بصمتها الخاصة في الرافال وهيF4 ...F4 ليست طائرة جديدة بل ترانش جديد ان صح التعبير ) هذا لا يعني عيوب بالضروره اذ ان الرافال F3+ الحالية ابلت بلاء حسنا سواء في ليبيا او في التمارين المختلفة ( ابرزها ATLC ومافعلته بالاف22 والتايفون ) والقصة مشهورة عليك بالبحث عنها ..
اما عن انها لاتقبل الترقيع والتطوير مستقبلا ....فاترك ذلك لاهله ..
كلنا نتمنى الجيل الخامس ولكن ...
انت تضحي بامر مهم عندما تكون مقاتلاتك كلها امريكية .. ( الاستقلالية ) ..
الامارات لديها بلوك60 لذا , لتقليل الاعتمادية على المورّد الامريكي , الافضل اقتناء طائرة اوروبية او شرقية ... لذلك تبدو الرافال F4 بمواصفات اماراتية خاصة + نقل التكنولوجيا وتصنيع قطع غيارها محليا ( كما وضعت بالمصادر في اكثر من مناسبة ) هي الخيار الافضل ريثما تسمح الولايات المتحدة ببيع الاف35 والسماح بالنفاذ لتكنولوجيتها وهو الامر الصعب حدوثه من وجهة نظري المتواضعه ..
 
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

انا لا امدح احدا بل اصحح بعض المعلومات المغلوطه متى ماتوفرت لي المصادر التي تثبتها ما اقول ..
الرافال F3+ تم تلاشي جميع سلبيات F1 و F2 وتمت استعراض هذا الطراز في ليبيا مؤخرا ..
هنا اجيال الرافال :


لا ادري ماحقيقة العيوب المذكورة ..احدهم يتحدث عن اهتزازات والآخر عن حرارة البدن وقصر انف الرادار ...هل هذه العيوب فعلا حقيقة ام مجرد تحليلات شخصية ؟؟
لو اردت معرفة ماهية الطلب الاماراتي : عليك بالعودة للاف16 بلوك 60 .. كان من المستطاع والاسهل اقتناء بلوك52 ... في الميراج كان من المستطاع اقتناء 2000-5 فلماذا هذه التطويرات الخاصة (ميراج2000-9 ) ؟؟
هنا نستطيع فهم لماذا الامارات مصرة على ( بصمتها الخاصة في الرافال وهيF4 ...F4 ليست طائرة جديدة بل ترانش جديد ان صح التعبير ) هذا لا يعني عيوب بالضروره اذ ان الرافال F3+ الحالية ابلت بلاء حسنا سواء في ليبيا او في التمارين المختلفة ( ابرزها ATLC ومافعلته بالاف22 والتايفون ) والقصة مشهورة عليك بالبحث عنها ..
اما عن انها لاتقبل الترقيع والتطوير مستقبلا ....فاترك ذلك لاهله ..
كلنا نتمنى الجيل الخامس ولكن ...
انت تضحي بامر مهم عندما تكون مقاتلاتك كلها امريكية .. ( الاستقلالية ) ..
الامارات لديها بلوك60 لذا , لتقليل الاعتمادية على المورّد الامريكي , الافضل اقتناء طائرة اوروبية او شرقية ... لذلك تبدو الرافال F4 بمواصفات اماراتية خاصة + نقل التكنولوجيا وتصنيع قطع غيارها محليا ( كما وضعت بالمصادر في اكثر من مناسبة ) هي الخيار الافضل ريثما تسمح الولايات المتحدة ببيع الاف35 والسماح بالنفاذ لتكنولوجيتها وهو الامر الصعب حدوثه من وجهة نظري المتواضعه ..

يا صديقي انت لن تواجه جيش مثل الجيش الليبي ....ألجيش الليبي جزر القمر تستطيع هزيمته

اذا تجاوزت مشاكل الرافال فعلا ووصلت الى ف4 سيكون امر جيدا

هذه المصادر ومن اعلى المناصب في فرنسا----------هذه ليست كل المصادر ...هناك اكثر عن مشاكل الحرارة والتصميم واليزر الخ ...........لكن اقرا جيدا عن المشاكل الرئيسية وهي المحرك -الرادر -السعر وغيرها

dsi4.jpg


dsi3.jpg


dsi2b.jpg


dsi1w.jpg



Awaiting the UAE
DSI special edition , August 2010


With the general Alain SILVY
Deputy Chief Plans within the Staff of the Air Force.

The french government took the pledge with the Rafale manufacturer to ensure, whatever happens, a minimum annual rate of 11 aircrafts. A rate estimated by the manufacturer as the floor below which it would not be possible to go without calling into question the economy of the program, including the unit cost of these aircrafts. The LPM (Law of Military Planning) not providing matching funds for the purchase of these machines for the years 2013 and 2014, either export allow very opportunely to keep the commitment to the industry, or export is lacking and the french state must find the necessary budgets by reducing or eliminating other programs. Is this commitment based on obtaining export orders a dangerous bet?

Alain Silvy: Let's be honest. This "bet", to use your word, on short-term obtaining of export orders for the Rafale, has nevertheless allowed to complete the LPM allowing the planning of a big hole in the shipment for the Air Force and the Navy without questioning the production rate, already reduced to the minimum industrially acceptable by Dassault Aviation. Deliveries to the French armies should be reduced to only 2 or 3 machines per year for a time, the export bringing the complement to reach the threshold of 11 Rafale produced per year. In case of absence of export order, the situation would become obviously complicated.[…] We would have to find a substantial funding of several hundred million euros. […]

But how to find the hundreds of millions euros in question?

The 3 armies have all benefited from the choice made by the planners of the LPM to reduce to a very low level the Rafale deliveries. The amount saved have been reallocated to the 3 armies. I think nobody questions it. We should have to find the funds by making new balancing within the LPM […] we must now hope that will come very quickly a first export order. […] But export is not neutral. Potential customers, including UAE, have specific requirements with developments leaving the French standards - and therefore with budget not taken into account by the LPM - they want cofinanced by the French state. That could require for France to find further funding for the Rafale program […]

What would be the cost for France of these additional co-development to fund with a potential UAE customer?

One hears everything and its opposite. Everything depends on what one includes. Personally, I do not give precise figures. But this is obviously something like several hundreds of millions of euros paid by the french state.

Is the Air force interested by some of the UAE requirements ?

From my point of view, it depends where. We could be potentially interested by the M88-X with 9 tons of thrust because it would be, in the circumstances, an open field. But, on the other hand, we have not yet reached the stage of maturity - which requires about 150,000 flight hours – with the current M88 with 7.5 tonnes thrust. This means that with the M88-X, even if it should presumptively enjoy a good community with the existing M88, we would have to accumulate even more hours to reach the stage of maturity of the engine.
Very clearly, in my opinion, the M88-X is not for the Air force an immediate need. In order to sell the Rafale to the UAE, the Defense may ultimately be asked to acquire the M88-X in a quantity and on terms still to define. And we'll maybe even happy to use it. But today we have no technical or operational reasons to make it available for us.The gain expected from the arrival of a more powerful engine is lower than the risks we would go with the technical immaturity of new modules and the management in parallel - so complicated in terms of logistics and operational employment of aircraft with different performances –of two relatively different parks of M88. All this must be thorough.

Would it be possible to see Safran manufacturing M88-X for UAE and continue to deliver “classic” M88 for the french Rafale? And this notwithstanding that the french government would have co-funded the development of the M88-X

It is not forbidden to imagine it. On condition, however, that to maintain the parallel production of two versions of M88 does not cost more than producing a single model. The support costs must not explode. Safran must tell us very quickly and very frankly what it would be. And again, nothing force us to equip the whole fleet of Rafale, Air and/or Marine.


And about the UAE demand to have a more powerful RBE2 radar, could it answer to some expectations for the Air force?

The Air Force is interested in having a RBE2 with an active antenna. It is now established with the powerful AESA antenna which will equip our tranche 4 Rafale. What the Emirians are calling for is much more complex. They want, in addition to the AESA, to have new functionalities on their Rafale, such as GMTT / GMTI (detection and tracking of moving ground target), interlacing between air/air and air/ground modes, etc.. Even if this is not for us an urgent need, the operational 'plus' obtained could nonetheless eventually interest us. However, the key Emirian demand is about the range of the RBE2. And, with the same antenna diameter, the only way to achieve the 10% range increase (compared with the Basic AESA F3 "roadmap") that wish to obtain the Emirians, is a big boost to the power of the radar.

But more power to the RBE2, could it be a risk to generate serious electromagnetic interference (EMI) with the SPECTRA receptors ?

There is indeed a very real EMI risk to treat. This is the case whenever we want to change aircraft emission systems. There are solutions, obviously, but this will require to reexamine SPECTRA. But the biggest problem we have identified is about electric generation, which could be insufficient. To increase the maximum range of a few nautical miles, we would have to deeply review the electrical generation system of the aircraft.
In short, to conceive what it could be a Rafale-9, that is to say a new aircraft moving away from the similarity you want with french Rafale. The Emirati experts participating in negotiations are well aware of the problem. But they are also used to have very high quality weapons systems. They want to avoid any regression with the Rafale, at least on the radar range, compared to the F-16 Block 60, the Rafale having also many other qualities. The Emirians don’t have AWACS and therefore want - it is a fundamental requirement - that the Rafale can see very far. Beyond the radar, they are showing fairly strong requirements into SPECTRA development with, for example, the expansion of some frequency bands, an increased sensitivity, adding functionalities; in short, they want we push up the current technologies. Of course, to improve the electronic warfare of our Rafale faster than originally planned could be an additional operational advantage for the Air force. However, our current approach is to consolidate the features implemented in SPECTRA, to make them more robust and make it easier for operators and programmers before wanting to go further into addition of new capabilities. The current SPECTRA is working well and even very good. In sum, what separates us, about Spectra, is a matter of timing and calendar […]. In a more general way, we share the same wishes about capabilities, but with very different maturities calendar sometimes. Budgetary constraints remain a dimensioning factor.


The Emirians want a viewfinder-HMD ...

It's true. And ourselves, one way or another, we will. For various reasons, we agreed in the past to not use it initially, but this equipment is now an almost indispensable element for modern combat aircraft. Besides various prospects of the Rafale - the UAE, Brazil and Switzerland – also want it, confirming this analysis.

In the end, what about the eventuality of a Rafale order by the UAE?

Very sincerely, and seen from my place, I think we're really not very far from being able to reach a common ground with our UAE friends. The only pertinent question to be asked is whether the will of similarity expressed by the Emirians will prevail over their performance requirement If performance is what counts, in fact we’ll get two quite different Rafale - as with the Mirage 2000-9 - because the french state can not or do not want to follow it. If the community is paramount, the Emirians will have to reduce their ambitions with regard to performance. The choice is now in their hands. They must see if their operational necessities allow them or not to settle for a weapon system fairly close to the F3 "roadmap" French standard. They must decide whether they consider more important to work very closely with us. I know they have already expressed the wish, in case of order, to be able to send their pilots very quickly in our Rafale units where they could train, learn the Rafale and our tactical employment. To obtain a rapid operational rise of their own Rafale squadron. in that case their Rafale configuration and ours must not be very different. But it remains to be seen ... That is where we are I think
.
How long would require the additional developments required by the UAE?

It is difficult to answer precisely this question, especially since I do not have all the elements of the problematic. The first UAE aircraft would not be delivered before 2014. This period should be sufficient to finish to develop a 9 tons M-88. About the radar, we would not probably have in 2014 all the capabilities and performance expected, but they would, I think, nevertheless be already very close to the target. The problem of electric generation requires also time to be processed. This will be a heavy operation for the aircraft. In the case of an order signed this year, we would therefore have some years to develop the additional features. These years should not be wasted. In any case, I think the discussions with Emirians take place on a sound footing. Their negotiators are experts who know exactly what is fighter plane and are aware of the state of the art and of various constraints. Talking to people at this level is very pleasant for the Air Force. However, now the order must materialize.


What about the UAE Mirage 2000-9 ?

The French authorities have been very clear on this subject. Once the Rafale ordered by UAE, the Mirage 2000-9 will be taken back by France which will issue them to a defeasance agency in charge of their resale export. This means that in this hypothesis, it is not envisaged that they equip the French Army.

But would it be interesting for the Army because these are recent cells with advanced weapons systems ?

We can not say that we feel no interest in these machines, because their weapons system displays really astonishing performance. The Air Force could certainly benefit. However, the indispensable work for NATO compatibility on these weapons systems would be very heavy with a cost probably exceeding the one - 700 millions euros - planned for the renovation of our Mirage 2000D, which is a priority for us.

If the UAE buy the Rafale, could the Rafale Transformation Squadron (ETR), which will be created in Saint-Dizier, be relocated at Al-Dhafra to help UAE pilots and benefit from the excellent local weather conditions ?

Why not? but we are not there yet. […] To install the ETR – as a whole or just a part - at Al-Dhafra could be an asset. Our first participation, last autumn, to the ATLC (Advanced Tactical Leadership Course) organized by the UAE Air Warfare Center, has once again demonstrated the richness of such exchanges. If the UAE order the Rafale, we may have to quickly take charge, in a way or another, of the transformation of their pilots on our weapon system. Doing it at Al-Dhafra would be - and this is only my opinion - interesting.

Interview by Jean-Louis Prome
 
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

And about the UAE demand to have a more powerful RBE2 radar, could it answer to some expectations for the Air force?

The Air Force is interested in having a RBE2 with an active antenna. It is now established with the powerful AESA antenna which will equip our tranche 4 Rafale. What the Emirians are calling for is much more complex. They want, in addition to the AESA, to have new functionalities on their Rafale, such as GMTT / GMTI (detection and tracking of moving ground target), interlacing between air/air and air/ground modes, etc.. Even if this is not for us an urgent need, the operational 'plus' obtained could nonetheless eventually interest us. However, the key Emirian demand is about the range of the RBE2. And, with the same antenna diameter, the only way to achieve the 10% range increase (compared with the Basic AESA F3 "roadmap") that wish to obtain the Emirians, is a big boost to the power of the radar.

But more power to the RBE2, could it be a risk to generate serious electromagnetic interference (EMI) with the SPECTRA receptors ?

There is indeed a very real EMI risk to treat. This is the case whenever we want to change aircraft emission systems. There are solutions, obviously, but this will require to reexamine SPECTRA. But the biggest problem we have identified is about electric generation, which could be insufficient. To increase the maximum range of a few nautical miles, we would have to deeply review the electrical generation system of the aircraft.
In short, to conceive what it could be a Rafale-9, that is to say a new aircraft moving away from the similarity you want with french Rafale. The Emirati experts participating in negotiations are well aware of the problem. But they are also used to have very high quality weapons systems. They want to avoid any regression with the Rafale, at least on the radar range, compared to the F-16 Block 60, the Rafale having also many other qualities. The Emirians don’t have AWACS and therefore want - it is a fundamental requirement - that the Rafale can see very far. Beyond the radar, they are showing fairly strong requirements into SPECTRA development with, for example, the expansion of some frequency bands, an increased sensitivity, adding functionalities; in short, they want we push up the current technologies. Of course, to improve the electronic warfare of our Rafale faster than originally planned could be an additional operational advantage for the Air force. However, our current approach is to consolidate the features implemented in SPECTRA, to make them more robust and make it easier for operators and programmers before wanting to go further into addition of new capabilities. The current SPECTRA is working well and even very good. In sum, what separates us, about Spectra, is a matter of timing and calendar […]. In a more general way, we share the same wishes about capabilities, but with very different maturities calendar sometimes. Budgetary constraints remain a dimensioning factor.


لونتها بالاحمر لانها مهمة

اشكرك على اهتمامك واسمح لي بوضع مصدر على المنتدى الذي اقتبست منه هذا الكلام مع تحياتنا للكاتب :phaid 9/4/2010 11:24:55 AM


ما قرأته ان الاماراتيين يرغبون بتطويرات واضافة وضائف جديدة للرادار وان زيادة مداه سيسبب تداخل مع مستشعرات سبيكترا ....
انا شخصيا لست مقتنع برأي هذا الشخص كون الفرنسيين اسياد المستشعرات والافيونكس الاوروبية ...هل تضن ( ان صح كلام الاخ Phaid ) ان يصعب على الفرنسيين حل مشاكل التداخل وهم من هم في هذه المجالات ...Thales
 
رد: موسوعة المقاتلة رافال

الحقيقه ان فرنسا تعتمد كثيرا على الدعايه وهذا واضح بشكل غريب
في المقابل 4 سنوات من الوعود والانتظار لم تقدم فيها فرنسا حلول واضحــه حتى الان ...فقط المزيد من الدعايه ...وهذا واضح من الرد الاماراتي الاخير بخصوص الصفقه :dunno[1]:
الامارات وفي طلباتها واضح انها تحاول اصلاح العيوب في المحرك والرادار .....ألــخ :dunno[1]:
وليس كما يحاول ان يصور اخي كملجسم انها تبحث عن مقاتله مميزهـ بمواصفات خارقه :dunno[1]:
في حين لو نظرنا ألى التطويرات المستقبليه للتايفون مثلا
نجدها تحقق رغبات الاخوهـ في الامارات وبزيادهـ :dunno[1]:
من ناحية الرادار والمحرك وقدارت القتال جو -جو.... ..جو - ارض
تصميم الرافال غير قابل على التطوير بشكل كبير وهذا واضح
رادار الرافال وقبل فتره وصل ألى اكثر من 800 مودلز ((التطويرات مستمرهـ ))
في حين ان التايفون عرض رادار لها بـ اكثر من 1400 مودلز ((التطويرات مستمرهـ))مع وعود واضحه وجاده بقدرات رادار لن يكون له مثيل :dunno[1]:
نظام سبيكترا لا يعول عليه كثيرا في ظل الثورهـ في رادارات ايسا وبقدرات هائله خصوصا الامريكيه
سوف يكون عائق كبير جدا في ظل محدودية قدرات رادار الرافال
تظل هذي وجهة نظري ولكل دوله لها سياسات عسكريه خاصه ...احترم اختيار الاخوان في الامارات
موفقين جميعا :ANSmile04[1]:
 
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