- إنضم
- 1 أكتوبر 2015
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- 15,663
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جنرال اسباني: هل يمكن ان تندلع حرب مع المغرب
- بادئ الموضوع ۞ضد التيار۞
- تاريخ البدء
- إنضم
- 1 أكتوبر 2015
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- 15,663
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هدا موضوع أخر في الصراع الأمريكي الصيني وفيه ما يقال بحمل بعير .بعيدا عن هرطقت الروس وكدبهم طبعا, هل استطاع الصينيون بانظمتهم تحييد الدرع البحري الامريكي على الباسيفيك ?
- إنضم
- 19 مارس 2016
- المشاركات
- 2,958
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- الدولة
تكرار سيناريو الصين _ مكاو
الصين_ التبت
الصين _ هونج كونج .
وقريبا : الصين _ تايوان . هو افضل نهج ..
الصين_ التبت
الصين _ هونج كونج .
وقريبا : الصين _ تايوان . هو افضل نهج ..
- إنضم
- 23 أغسطس 2011
- المشاركات
- 16,412
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- الدولة
كثرت هاته الايام مواضيع المغرب, ادن نحن في المقدمة طبعا وستنهال علينا سهام الفشل والفاشلين, هل رايت ترامب يهاجم رئيس دولة جزر القمر مثلا, طبعا لا فهو لايعرفه اصلا لكن العكس صحيح.
- إنضم
- 31 أغسطس 2019
- المشاركات
- 2,069
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- الدولة
انت فهمت و انا فهمت و خلاص
- إنضم
- 23 أغسطس 2011
- المشاركات
- 16,412
- التفاعل
- الدولة
لا لن يحصل,
- إنضم
- 1 أكتوبر 2015
- المشاركات
- 15,663
- التفاعل
- الدولة
لكي تدخل مع دولة متقدمة عسكريا ومدعومة من قبل حلف الناتو وجب الإستعداد جيدا لهده المعركة الحاسمة من أبسط سلاح إلى أعقد منظومة صواريخ،و ليس بالتهريج To be or not to be, العزيمة موجودة لكن زوايا الحرب الفاصلة غير متاحة حاليا ،يجب على المغرب الانتظار قليلا قبل حسم المعركة ولو كانت بفاصل 20 سنة القادمة،التخطيط الذكي يتطلب سنوات من الدراسة والتسرع مصيره الفشل في أي ملحمة عسكرية.
- إنضم
- 2 سبتمبر 2009
- المشاركات
- 3,687
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الحمد الله انك فهمتي?
- إنضم
- 2 سبتمبر 2009
- المشاركات
- 3,687
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اصلا اخي العزيز سكان إقليم الباسك مسالمين واغلبهم لم يعد يعير لقضية الانفصال أي اهتمام الا من بعض قوى اليسار التي لا زالت تؤمن به وهي معدودة على رؤوس الأصابع.
- إنضم
- 8 ديسمبر 2015
- المشاركات
- 1,177
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البعض الله يهديه يتكلم عن سيناريو الحرب وان المغرب غير مكافئ لإسبانيا وهذا خطأ كبير المغرب يتسلح من اجل عدم وقوع الحرب ويطور ترسانته العسكرية لردع أي عدو مهما كان وحاليا مانمتلكه ولله الحمد قادرين أن نحمي بلدنا وزيادة اما مستقبلا أن شاء الله فقوتنا ستزداد وتتطور مع تطور اقتصادنا ومعها ستضمحل التهديدات
وسينام الجميع في هدوء الا اللي كيقلب على خلا دار بوه
وسينام الجميع في هدوء الا اللي كيقلب على خلا دار بوه
- إنضم
- 10 ديسمبر 2019
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- 772
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كثر حديث الصحافة الإسبانية عن الجيش المغربي في الآونة الأخيرة متوجسين من مشروع التحديث
هذا أحد مقالاتهم الحديثة
The artillery 'made in the USA' bought by Morocco that leaves Spain out of the game
The Maghreb country continues to strengthen its armed forces with a checkbook, and it does not do so in any way. It thrives on American technology and can be a problem for Spain
It is hardly news anymore. Just one more point in the information from circles and forums interested in defense, but the escalation of acquisitions of Morocco in military equipment is something incessant and updates on new weapons systems acquired have become almost daily . This time it was the turn of the artillery and, as it is happening lately, a good part with first-rate American material and a checkbook. The boost they have given to such an important weapon can set off alarms on the other side of the Mediterranean if we compare it with the Spanish reality.
In recent years, our African neighbor has surprised with its important acquisitions of military equipment. First it was the F-16s. His FREM frigate, then the M1 Abrams tanks. Then the purchase of TOW anti-tank missiles, then the Apache combat helicopters. Also state-of-the-art radars for its Predator drones, MBDA MICA (European) and Sky Dragon (Chinese) medium-range short-range anti-aircraft missiles and the latest: Harpoon Block II missiles. The list is long and the money spent, with many zeros. But it has also reinforced, in a very discreet way and without major announcements , an element as vital to ground combat as its artillery.
The reality is that, today and with the latest confirmed acquisitions plus those that are given as possible , the Alawite artillery is not at all like what the kingdom had just four or five years ago. The change is abysmal and that is not especially good news for Spain.
Before 2010, Moroccan artillery could be classified as motley and of little effectiveness . It was based on a large number of old-fashioned and towed parts of North American origin, M114 155mm howitzers, M101 105mm and Russian-origin 130mm material. The most modern in this type of guns were the FH70 (155 mm) and the L118 (105 mm) of British origin. Alongside this towed artillery, there was an important stock of self-propelled North American material, M110A2 203 mm and M109 155 mm in various versions (A2, A3, L42 KAWEST and A5). Along with them about 100 copies of the Mle F3 (155 mm) of French origin. As it is easy to deduce, a true logistics nightmare that has now completely changed.
New top-notch material
Of all the above, according to information, only towed parts of British origin would continue to be in service today. Of the FH70 they have 30 copies and many others of the L118. Of the rest, although the M-110 could also continue to be active despite their age, only the M109 would be truly effective. Of the seconds there would be a maximum of 300 units in service (probably less) and about 50 of the M110. From here the picture is quite different because the reinforcements arrive in droves.
Regarding conventional artillery, the improvements come from different sources and with different capacities. The first of these major improvements come with the acquisition of an undetermined number of the Russian self-propelled 2S-19 Msta-S. The exact number has not been published and everything indicates that there are reservations about giving this information , although it is estimated that there may be around 40 units purchased.
The Msta-S is an impressive vehicle. It is a conversion from the barge of the T-80 battle tank , although it uses the T-72 diesel engine. It is equipped with a 152.4 mm cannon (it is the Russian caliber equivalent to 155 NATO) although in the export version, the one acquired by Morocco, a 155 mm tube compatible with NATO ammunition is mounted. It is a good material, effective and proven in combat in the conflicts in Chechnya, Donbass and Ukraine.
The other great reinforcement is the CAESAR self-propelled truck part, manufactured by the French Nexter. It is a model of the caliber 155 mm on the adapted chassis of the Sherpa truck . It has an automatic loader and an armored crew cabin. It is a modern material (it was released in 2008) of which 36 units have been purchased for a total amount of 200 million euros. The weapon is similar to the FH70, but much more versatile as it is self-propelled instead of towed and has an automatic loader.
Finally, the Moroccan intention to acquire the M109A6 Paladin artillery system has been confirmed in the short term. This is the logical evolution of the North American M109, with a barrel of the same caliber (155 mm) but much more modern and with the latest artillery technology, capable of getting into position and opening fire with total precision in just 30 seconds. If this acquisition to the USA were to materialize, the possible figure would be around 100 units to replace the older M109s (the A2 and A3).
Rocket launcher systems and maybe missiles
As if all this were not enough, the North African country has also entered and through the front door, in an artillery field that is increasingly considered more necessary and which all countries access or at least try. This is the artillery rocket launcher. This type of artillery bases its effectiveness on saturation fire, being able to simultaneously launch enormous firepower on a piece of terrain.
The effect on the enemy is devastating, something that could only be achieved with conventional artillery through high concentration. The disadvantage of rocket launcher systems lies in their reload times , their higher cost of ammunition, their difficulty for sustained fire and, in the past, their poor precision, something that has now been solved.
Of these systems Morocco would have acquired an undetermined number of WS-2D, a MRLS (Multiple-Rocket Launcher Systems) weapon purchased from China in 2018. It is a 400mm guided rocket launcher system with 6 tubes mounted on chassis truck. The acquired version (2D), which could be between 36 and 48 units (6 or 8 batteries), has GPS guidance and has a range of 400 km.
Another rocket launcher purchased is the PHL-03, also made in China. It is a model based on the Russian BM-30 Smerch system, from which it adopts the same configuration with 12 tubes of 300 mm. The rockets, depending on their warhead, which can be of various types, have a range of up to 130 km and are guided by GPS / GLONASS. Some 36 launchers would have been purchased.
Although these systems of Chinese origin are powerful, the real effectiveness of them remains a bit in the air as it is a material on which the information is always opaque. Something that does not happen with the latest and most recent acquisition of the Alawite kingdom, which uses again the proven and reliable American material. Its latest acquisition is none other than the HIMARS system . The M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) is one of the best rocket launchers in the world and features a lightweight system consisting of a 227mm 6-tube launcher.
The rockets have a range of more than 300 km and have various guidance systems, having demonstrated an amazing degree of precision for these types of weapons in real use and in settings as demanding as Afghanistan and Iraq. The M142, in addition to being airborne and fast reloading, enjoys great mobility as a 'shoot-and-scoot' type artillery, that is, capable of firing and changing positions immediately. Morocco has acquired 36 launchers to equip 6 batteries, for an estimated cost of over 250 million dollars.
The icing on the cake could be put by our neighbor if rumors are confirmed that he would be managing the acquisition of ATACMS missiles . This would be a very relevant and significant qualitative leap. It is the new American ground-to-ground missile MGM-140 Army Tactical Missile System. It is a mill 4 meters long and 610 mm in diameter, with a range of more than 300 km. Its guidance is inertial and by GPS, very precise and with several warheads, including a type with a submunition that acts as the terrible cluster or cluster bombs. The great advantage of this missile and that it would facilitate its acquisition, is that it uses the same launcher as the HIMARS, being in fact interchangeable.
Spanish artillery: waiting for its modernization
All this that Morocco has been announcing gains even more weight, and is more worrying when compared to the Spanish case. The description of the artillery situation in Spain is brief. Currently only three types of weapons are available : the 105mm L118 'Light Gun' towed barrel, the domestically manufactured SBS APU-SIAC 155mm towed howitzer and the self-propelled 155mm M-109. They are all good material that has proven to be effective and reliable. They've been put through a lot of hard work and excellent maintenance, but the years take their toll.
The 'Light Guns' (of which there are 56 pieces) were purchased in 1995. The towed SIACs, equivalent to the Moroccan FH70, are from the year 2000 and there are 78 active. The situation of the M-109 is even worse. The Army is keeping fewer than 90 specimens active and the Navy 6 (version A2) about to withdraw and pending the assignment of 6 of their pieces by Tierra to keep their only artillery battery active.
All M-109s (except those of the Marine Corps) are modernized to the A5E version (the same as the most modern ones in Morocco) but they are units with too many years in tow . The first 'long gun' (version M-109A1B) arrived in Spain in 1978 and have been modernizing and extending their lives since then. The M-109 has proven to be an unbreakable material when treated well, but it cries out for relief.
Rocket launcher artillery, nothing since the termination of the national manufacturing system 'Teruel' in 2011. The HIMARS, which would be the ideal for Spain, has been evaluated and the replacement of the old and faithful M-109s by new A6 Paladin models has also been analyzed. Everything has been in 'study' and the only novelty of our artillery can be said to be the recent acquisition of the new 'Excalibur' precision projectiles. The missiles, of course, "are neither present nor expected." On the positive side, there is the high level of personnel training, on par with the best in the western world.
The comparison of Spanish and Alawi media makes the situation clear. Moroccans have acted very intelligently, they have their main supplier of reference (USA) but they also buy from others such as France, Russia or China. Diversifying a lot complicates training and increases logistics costs , but that does not seem to be a problem for those who, in recent years, among acquisitions made, confirmed or planned, have committed to a checkbook a figure that can be estimated to be more than 15,000 million dollars, just in direct acquisitions. This amount is undoubtedly high for a country that is also requesting development funds.
www.elconfidencial.com
هذا أحد مقالاتهم الحديثة
The artillery 'made in the USA' bought by Morocco that leaves Spain out of the game
The Maghreb country continues to strengthen its armed forces with a checkbook, and it does not do so in any way. It thrives on American technology and can be a problem for Spain
It is hardly news anymore. Just one more point in the information from circles and forums interested in defense, but the escalation of acquisitions of Morocco in military equipment is something incessant and updates on new weapons systems acquired have become almost daily . This time it was the turn of the artillery and, as it is happening lately, a good part with first-rate American material and a checkbook. The boost they have given to such an important weapon can set off alarms on the other side of the Mediterranean if we compare it with the Spanish reality.
In recent years, our African neighbor has surprised with its important acquisitions of military equipment. First it was the F-16s. His FREM frigate, then the M1 Abrams tanks. Then the purchase of TOW anti-tank missiles, then the Apache combat helicopters. Also state-of-the-art radars for its Predator drones, MBDA MICA (European) and Sky Dragon (Chinese) medium-range short-range anti-aircraft missiles and the latest: Harpoon Block II missiles. The list is long and the money spent, with many zeros. But it has also reinforced, in a very discreet way and without major announcements , an element as vital to ground combat as its artillery.
The reality is that, today and with the latest confirmed acquisitions plus those that are given as possible , the Alawite artillery is not at all like what the kingdom had just four or five years ago. The change is abysmal and that is not especially good news for Spain.
Before 2010, Moroccan artillery could be classified as motley and of little effectiveness . It was based on a large number of old-fashioned and towed parts of North American origin, M114 155mm howitzers, M101 105mm and Russian-origin 130mm material. The most modern in this type of guns were the FH70 (155 mm) and the L118 (105 mm) of British origin. Alongside this towed artillery, there was an important stock of self-propelled North American material, M110A2 203 mm and M109 155 mm in various versions (A2, A3, L42 KAWEST and A5). Along with them about 100 copies of the Mle F3 (155 mm) of French origin. As it is easy to deduce, a true logistics nightmare that has now completely changed.
New top-notch material
Of all the above, according to information, only towed parts of British origin would continue to be in service today. Of the FH70 they have 30 copies and many others of the L118. Of the rest, although the M-110 could also continue to be active despite their age, only the M109 would be truly effective. Of the seconds there would be a maximum of 300 units in service (probably less) and about 50 of the M110. From here the picture is quite different because the reinforcements arrive in droves.
Regarding conventional artillery, the improvements come from different sources and with different capacities. The first of these major improvements come with the acquisition of an undetermined number of the Russian self-propelled 2S-19 Msta-S. The exact number has not been published and everything indicates that there are reservations about giving this information , although it is estimated that there may be around 40 units purchased.
The Msta-S is an impressive vehicle. It is a conversion from the barge of the T-80 battle tank , although it uses the T-72 diesel engine. It is equipped with a 152.4 mm cannon (it is the Russian caliber equivalent to 155 NATO) although in the export version, the one acquired by Morocco, a 155 mm tube compatible with NATO ammunition is mounted. It is a good material, effective and proven in combat in the conflicts in Chechnya, Donbass and Ukraine.
The other great reinforcement is the CAESAR self-propelled truck part, manufactured by the French Nexter. It is a model of the caliber 155 mm on the adapted chassis of the Sherpa truck . It has an automatic loader and an armored crew cabin. It is a modern material (it was released in 2008) of which 36 units have been purchased for a total amount of 200 million euros. The weapon is similar to the FH70, but much more versatile as it is self-propelled instead of towed and has an automatic loader.
Finally, the Moroccan intention to acquire the M109A6 Paladin artillery system has been confirmed in the short term. This is the logical evolution of the North American M109, with a barrel of the same caliber (155 mm) but much more modern and with the latest artillery technology, capable of getting into position and opening fire with total precision in just 30 seconds. If this acquisition to the USA were to materialize, the possible figure would be around 100 units to replace the older M109s (the A2 and A3).
Rocket launcher systems and maybe missiles
As if all this were not enough, the North African country has also entered and through the front door, in an artillery field that is increasingly considered more necessary and which all countries access or at least try. This is the artillery rocket launcher. This type of artillery bases its effectiveness on saturation fire, being able to simultaneously launch enormous firepower on a piece of terrain.
The effect on the enemy is devastating, something that could only be achieved with conventional artillery through high concentration. The disadvantage of rocket launcher systems lies in their reload times , their higher cost of ammunition, their difficulty for sustained fire and, in the past, their poor precision, something that has now been solved.
Of these systems Morocco would have acquired an undetermined number of WS-2D, a MRLS (Multiple-Rocket Launcher Systems) weapon purchased from China in 2018. It is a 400mm guided rocket launcher system with 6 tubes mounted on chassis truck. The acquired version (2D), which could be between 36 and 48 units (6 or 8 batteries), has GPS guidance and has a range of 400 km.
Another rocket launcher purchased is the PHL-03, also made in China. It is a model based on the Russian BM-30 Smerch system, from which it adopts the same configuration with 12 tubes of 300 mm. The rockets, depending on their warhead, which can be of various types, have a range of up to 130 km and are guided by GPS / GLONASS. Some 36 launchers would have been purchased.
Although these systems of Chinese origin are powerful, the real effectiveness of them remains a bit in the air as it is a material on which the information is always opaque. Something that does not happen with the latest and most recent acquisition of the Alawite kingdom, which uses again the proven and reliable American material. Its latest acquisition is none other than the HIMARS system . The M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) is one of the best rocket launchers in the world and features a lightweight system consisting of a 227mm 6-tube launcher.
The rockets have a range of more than 300 km and have various guidance systems, having demonstrated an amazing degree of precision for these types of weapons in real use and in settings as demanding as Afghanistan and Iraq. The M142, in addition to being airborne and fast reloading, enjoys great mobility as a 'shoot-and-scoot' type artillery, that is, capable of firing and changing positions immediately. Morocco has acquired 36 launchers to equip 6 batteries, for an estimated cost of over 250 million dollars.
The icing on the cake could be put by our neighbor if rumors are confirmed that he would be managing the acquisition of ATACMS missiles . This would be a very relevant and significant qualitative leap. It is the new American ground-to-ground missile MGM-140 Army Tactical Missile System. It is a mill 4 meters long and 610 mm in diameter, with a range of more than 300 km. Its guidance is inertial and by GPS, very precise and with several warheads, including a type with a submunition that acts as the terrible cluster or cluster bombs. The great advantage of this missile and that it would facilitate its acquisition, is that it uses the same launcher as the HIMARS, being in fact interchangeable.
Spanish artillery: waiting for its modernization
All this that Morocco has been announcing gains even more weight, and is more worrying when compared to the Spanish case. The description of the artillery situation in Spain is brief. Currently only three types of weapons are available : the 105mm L118 'Light Gun' towed barrel, the domestically manufactured SBS APU-SIAC 155mm towed howitzer and the self-propelled 155mm M-109. They are all good material that has proven to be effective and reliable. They've been put through a lot of hard work and excellent maintenance, but the years take their toll.
The 'Light Guns' (of which there are 56 pieces) were purchased in 1995. The towed SIACs, equivalent to the Moroccan FH70, are from the year 2000 and there are 78 active. The situation of the M-109 is even worse. The Army is keeping fewer than 90 specimens active and the Navy 6 (version A2) about to withdraw and pending the assignment of 6 of their pieces by Tierra to keep their only artillery battery active.
All M-109s (except those of the Marine Corps) are modernized to the A5E version (the same as the most modern ones in Morocco) but they are units with too many years in tow . The first 'long gun' (version M-109A1B) arrived in Spain in 1978 and have been modernizing and extending their lives since then. The M-109 has proven to be an unbreakable material when treated well, but it cries out for relief.
Rocket launcher artillery, nothing since the termination of the national manufacturing system 'Teruel' in 2011. The HIMARS, which would be the ideal for Spain, has been evaluated and the replacement of the old and faithful M-109s by new A6 Paladin models has also been analyzed. Everything has been in 'study' and the only novelty of our artillery can be said to be the recent acquisition of the new 'Excalibur' precision projectiles. The missiles, of course, "are neither present nor expected." On the positive side, there is the high level of personnel training, on par with the best in the western world.
The comparison of Spanish and Alawi media makes the situation clear. Moroccans have acted very intelligently, they have their main supplier of reference (USA) but they also buy from others such as France, Russia or China. Diversifying a lot complicates training and increases logistics costs , but that does not seem to be a problem for those who, in recent years, among acquisitions made, confirmed or planned, have committed to a checkbook a figure that can be estimated to be more than 15,000 million dollars, just in direct acquisitions. This amount is undoubtedly high for a country that is also requesting development funds.
La artillería 'made in USA' comprada por Marruecos que deja fuera de juego a España
El país magrebí sigue reforzando sus fuerzas armadas a golpe de talonario, y no lo hace de cualquier manera. Se nutre de tecnología estadounidense y puede ser un problema para España
المواضيع المشابهة
- مغلق
