صحيفة فرنسية: مصر مرشحة لـ"الميسترال" بعد استبعاد روسيا والصين

عارفين الميتسرال تبقي ليها قيمة امتي , لو هشغل عليها مقاتلات بقدرة اطلاق عامودي كالهارير ملا , فأيه الطائرات الاخري اللي ليها اطلاق عامودي وممكن تشتغل علي الميتسرال ...واساسا الميتسرال اخرها كام طيارة تشيلهم
 
كل ده اقدر انفذه من غير الميتسرال وخصوصا ان الهجوم علي السد مش يكون بالمروحيات بل بالطيران كالرافال مثلا حاملين قنابل بوزن محترم ولا أيه , وعلي العقيدة وتغيرها , اللي حصل في باب المندب اكبر دليل علي تغير العقيدة , الميتسرال مش هتثبت حاجة ...

اثيوبيا كانت مثال على فكرة القدرات الهجومية لكن لا علاقة لها بالميسترال
الميسترال بتقدر تشيل 16 مروحية ثقيلة او 32 مروحية خفيفة
بخلاف الدبابات والمدرعات والزوارق والافراد اللي تقدر تنقلهم
بخلاف تجهيزها بمستشفى ميداني كبير
بخلاف انها تستطيع ان تعمل كمركز قيادة للعمليات (يعني رئاسة الاركان تقدر من خلالها تدير حرب كاملة)

اللي احنا بنعمله مش بدعة
الجزائر ايضا اتجهت لهذا الاتجاه وان كان لاشياء اصغر
 
يقال ان الميسترال الروسية اضخم و اكبر من الميسترال الفرنسية و انها يمكنها حمل طائرات اكثر و اضخم و هذا كان مطلب روسي لحمل عدد اكبر من المروحيات الروسية
 
بعض التفاصيل عن الميسترال الروسية

ثمن الاولى 700 مليون يورو بينما ثمن الثانية اقل 600 مليون يورو (وكان هناك مخطط لتصنيع 2 كمان في روسيا مع نقل التكنولوجيا)

الميسترال الاولى كان سيتم نشرها في المناطق القطبية (وهذا ربما يفسر ارتفاع ثمنها بالمقارنة مع الثانية كونها مثلا مجهزة للمناطق القطبية .. وبالتالي فربما تحصل كندا على الاولى ونحصل نحن على الثانية .. هذا توقع)

الميسترال الروسية ستحمل 16 مروحية و500 من القوات الخاصة و70 مدرعة منها 13 دبابة .. بخلاف تعديلات في اماكن اقامة الاطاقم

Info Thursday morning given by the Russian press. The construction by the French shipyards of two Mistral-class warships to the Russian army in Moscow will cost a total of 1.37 billion euros. The cost of the first ship will amount to 720 million euros, while the second will cost € 650 million, for Russia more involved in its construction as in the first.
The French presidency announced on December 24 that the French shipyards DCNS and STX and the Russian OSK would build two common PCBs, under an agreement between Paris and Moscow which could be "extended" by making two additional ships. The cost of a third and fourth building of this type will depend, where applicable, the choice of shipyards,

DVKD Mistral-class designed for transfer of about 500 Marines, 13 tanks and can carry up to 16 helicopters. Helicopters for the Russian ship will be domestic type Ka-52 and Ka-27, said an officer of the Russian Navy, and two triple cabins where the crew lives and troops will be replaced by less comfortable Kubrick. The French side is selling with the ship combat management information system Zenith 9, but without a license.

Chief of General Staff Nikolai Makarov said that the first Mistral-class DVKD sent to the Pacific Fleet, which is used to transport troops to the Kuril Islands, if necessary.
 


Air wing:
Following further research on the air wings, it appears these will be air wings comprising carrier-based and land-based elements to ensure fast rotation of the helicopters for repairs or replacement due to combat losses.This means the helicopter complement onboard Russian Navy Mistrals will be the same as the French Navy Mistrals: 16 (likely 8 Ka-52K and 8 Ka-29 Helicopters).


Ka-52K Alligator (NATO reporting name: Hokum B)
The Ka-52K is a navalized version of the land-based Ka-52 Alligator combat helicopter operated by the Russian Air Force. The special "navalized" version of the helicopter will be specially equipped to conduct attack missions against targets at sea and on the ground which requires different sensors and armaments than those used on the basic Ka-52 helicopter.

The major difference will be the radar: A modified version of the Mig-35 fighter's Zhuk-A phased array radar is currently being developed to fit into the Ka-52K nose cone. This will be a major step forward compared to the base Ka-52 helicopter as the AESA radar Zhuk-A is among the most advanced radars to date in Russia. The radar is stated to provide a detection range of 130 km for a head on target with up to 30 targets tracked and 6 of those engaged at any one time.

Ka-52K will also feature folding rotor blades, folding wings and anti-corrosion treatment to fuselage and systems which are a necessity for any helicopter set to operate from a ship.


Another significant improvement for the Ka-52K over the Ka-52 is the reported possibility to launch Kh-31 (AS-17 'Krypton') and Kh-35 (AS-20 'Kayak') anti-ship missiles.


Ka-29 (NATO reporting name: Helix B)
Ka-29 Helix, based on the Ka-27 ship-borne helicopter, was originally designed for the Soviet navy as a dedicated assault and transport helicopter. In transport configuration the Ka-29 can carry 16 equipped soldiers or 10 wounded including four stretchers (medical supplies and equipment included). 2000kg cargo may be carried internally or 4000kg externally. A winch may also be installed. Ka-29 helicopters can also provide fire support for the landing party. In a combat configuration the helicopter is fitted with a 9A622 Gatling type 7.62-mm machine gun, eight 9K114 Shturm (AT-6 Spiral) or 9M120 Ataka-V (AT-9 Spiral-2) anti-tank missiles, up to four 57-mm or 80-mm rockets pods and two GS-23L twin-barrel 23-mm gun pod.

As for Ka-52K, the Ka-29 rotors and wings may be folded for storage inside the Mistral class vessel's hangar.

Landing crafts:
If the Russian Navy selects Russian made landing craft for their Mistrals, they will likely be project 11770 Serna or project 21280 Dyugon, those being the latest landing craft projects in Russia.
Project 11770 Serna has a displacement of 99.7 tons and maximum speed of 30 knots. It can transport one main battle tank or two armored personnel carriers or 92 soldiers.
The larger Dyugon (Project 21280) has a displacement of 280 tons and maximum speed of 35 knots. Dyugon can carry three main battle tanks or five armored personnel carriers. Dyugon may have to be slightly modified as its mast appears to be too tall to be able to fit inside a Mistral class vessel’s well-deck.

However, according to some reports, Russian Navy may be procuring French made L-CAT landing catamaran instead. Designed to land troops and military vehicles from an over-the-horizon amphibious vessel (30 nautical miles/55 km), the L-CAT has a payload of 80 tons with a maximum speed of 30 knots. Its doors at the front and rear simplify the loading and unloading of vehicles.

Weapons:
Vladivostok type Mistrals are set to receive a fully Russian weapons fit.
Self protection against air threats will be fulfilled by two : One located the bow, port side and another system located at the stern, starboard side.
Two are set to be fitted (bow, starboard side and stern, port side) for close range protection against air and surface threats.
Some 14,5mm heavy machine guns are planned to be installed on Vladivostok for protection against close range asymmetrical threats.
Four will be fitted on each side of the vessels. It is designed for protection of ships against attacks of underwater combat swimmers at external roadstead open anchor stops and bases. The system ensures single-shot and salvo fire with rocket grenades RG-55M and RGS-55.

Other notable modifications include increased hangar height to accomodate the Kamov helicopters, modified bridge structure, reinforced hull to operate in Arctic zones, specific warming devices on deck, a door that completly closes the well-deck (on French Mistrals, the well-deck door doesn't reach the top of the well-deck, leaving an opening) and several russian specific systems (note the several radomes placed at different locations in the image above).
 
مقارنة بين شكل الميسترال الروسية (الاولى) والفرنسية (التانية)

Vladivostok_LHD_BPC_Russian_Navy_Bow.jpg
Mistral_Tonnerre_BPC_LHD_French_Navy_Bow.jpg
 
انت متاكد ان الاتنين ميسترال اصل الشكل مختلف تماما

الصورتين موجودين للمقارنة في
القبب بتاعة الرادارات ووسائل الاتصالات بينها اخلافات كبيرة حسب الطلب الروسي
and several russian specific systems (note the several radomes placed at different locations in the image above).
 
فيه تقارير كندية بتكتب شعر في الميسترال الروسية بانها هتكون ممتازة لكندا
مجهزة للعمل في الاجواء الباردة ولم يوضع عليها انظمة تسليح او اتصالات بما يسمح بالخيار الكندي .. ده غير سرعة التسليم
 
مصدر اخر على تسليح وتجهيز الميسترال الروسية
يبدو ان روسية استغنت عن بعض وسائل الراحة الفرنسية لزيادة العدد (ربما يرتفع عدد القوات المحمولة الى 700)
واستغنت عن اغلب التسليح واعتمدت بشكل اساسي على المروحيات بجانب تسليح خفيف (بجانب القطع المرافقة)


As noted above, the ship’s most important weapons will be its helicopters.

Beyond that, the Mistral Class is built to commercial standards, rather than naval combat standards, and currently carries very light defensive systems: 4 machine gun stations, a pair of 30mm guns, and a pair of manual Simbad twin-launchers for MBDA’s very short-range Mistral anti-aircraft missiles. Deployment in zones that feature anti-ship missiles, such as the 2006 evacuation off of Lebanon, requires protective escort ships.

The Vladivostok Class be be similarly armed. With respect to the transfer of French military technology, and especially questions raised about the SENIT-9 combat system and SIC-21 fleet command system, DCNS had this to say:

A Russian combat management system will be installed on board in France. The communication system will integrate Russian communication equipment with French equipment. Some of these equipment will be installed and integrated with the French equipment, some Russian equipment will be installed in Russia. The radar is French. ESM(Electronic Support Measures, detects & pinpoints incoming radar emissions) is not planned on board. Only the pre-installation of the self-defence (A360, Gibkha) will be done in France. The installation will be done in Russia, after the delivery of the ship.”

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systems are Russian 30mm radar-aimed gatling guns used for close-in defense. Drawings from DCNS suggest that the Vladivostoks will carry 2 of these, along with 2
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quad-launchers fitted with 4 very short range
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missiles. Four DP-65 anti-saboteur grenade launchers will also be scattered around the ship.

Other Russian Modifications

The Russian ships may include a number of changes, to the point of making them a variant class.

The biggest change appears to be an air wing of 30 helicopters, instead of 16, but that could be a mirage. Russian Ka-27/29/31 naval helicopters have smaller footprints than the Mistral’s base NH90, owing to their design, while the Ka-52 attack helicopter is comparable. Some natural increase to about 18 on board is possible, therefore, but the Russian official who gave that figure spoke of combined ship and land-based elements, in order to ensure fast rotation of the helicopters for repairs, or replace combat losses. Russian equipment doesn’t have an outstanding reliability record, and training will require set-asides, so a wing of 30 to deploy 16-18 helicopters is plausible.

Other helicopter-related changes include raised hangars to accommodate taller Russian coaxial designs. Changing overall ship height would change the ship’s balance, but squeezing other decks would change capacity for other key items. It will be interesting to see how the Russian design decides to cope.

Structurally, weather is the first priority. Operations within Russia’s Pacific and Northern fleets will require some hull strengthening to guard against ice damage, which may squeeze internal space a bit more, and parts of the flight deck will need more power for de-icing. The well deck door will reportedly close completely, eliminating the Mistrals’ top opening. Finally, drawings show a modified bridge structure with less protected forward visibility, and more and larger radomes around the ship to accommodate Russian equipment.

For Russian sailors, however, some of the Vladivostok Class’ most important features may be more basic: hot water to shower in, comfortable bunking quarters, etc. Given the state, age, and design philosophy of most current Russian navy vessels
 
In built for the Russian Navy ships at the request of the Russian side was introduced a number of changes compared to French project :

  1. It has been changed to virtually composition of alloys steel hulls, which allows their use in the northern latitudes, including in difficult ice conditions.
  2. Increased height of the UDC since been refurbished inside the ship docks for mooring of larger helicopters such as and .
  3. The design of the ships provided space for additional weapons and, in particular, means of to repel air strikes and artillery weapons, and rapid-caliber automatic settings to reflect the attacks from the sea.Strengthening arms allows you to use UDC in the open sea with a smaller escort escort surface ships.
  4. Little changed living conditions .
Instead of the outdated system of the French satellite Syracuse on the first Russian "Mistral" will be installed domestic system "Centaurus".According to the documents, in addition to traditional for the Russian Navy receivers and transmitters HF and VHF communications will be set product P-794-1, which is part of the upgraded "Centaurus".Ship station of the system provides data transfer between vehicles and with the coast station on the speed of 512 kbit / s .

For the first Russian DVKD this class - - in France in October 2014 to be built 4 boats CTM NG (Chaland de Transported Materiel de Nouvelle Generation).Unlike its predecessors (CTM), CTM NG type boats have a length of 27 m and a width of 7 meters, they are equipped with two ramps for landing: the bow and stern, which gives them more room to maneuver.Boat type CTM NG will be better able to act in the face of strong pitching, and their speed will be 20 knots (2 times more than CTM)
 
الميسترال الفرنسية عاملين فيها بار للاحتفالات وشرب الخمرة
مش ناقص غير انهم يجيبو نسوان :D
وكمان معتمدين نظام ان كل اوضة لفردين ولها حمام خاص

الروس لغوا الكلام ده وهيخلوا اوض الضباط بس زي ما هي
اما باقي البحارة فكل 6- 12 في اوضة .. وحمام لكل كام اوضة
توفيرا في المساحة ولعدم الراحة المبالغ فيها

انا دلوقتي عرفت ليه الفريم كبيرة كده وتسليحها قريب من الجويند
اكيد عاملين جواها ملعب كورة خماسي :D
الفرنسيين دول اخر دلع

At the headquarters of the Navy (Navy) Russia felt that conditions on board the helicopter type "Mistral", which are being built by the French company in Russia, too comfortable.The military presence of the bar confused for personnel and premises in the project is replaced with a traditional cabin.On Wednesday, July 9, 2014, the newspaper "Izvestia".

"According to the charter of the ship of the Navy, each soldier must refrain from bad habits, including the consumption of alcohol. On our ships a gathering place for recreation and entertainment staff It has always been and remains the wardroom, "- confirmed the publication of the representative of the Main Staff of the Navy, familiar with the details of the contract.Despite the fact that ships sometimes, for example, as part of the diplomatic mission, organize receptions for staff there is a strict ban on alcohol ."Bar we do not need - we're not accustomed to, not raised like the French. The entertainment in our fleet, and so are many, there are all the same, what lives young people just do not have the girls - the men watching movies, playing KVN, write letters home "- he said Rear Admiral retired Vladimir Zakharov.Another change of "Mistral" directly affect sailors: Kubrick's double with a bathroom would get only officers.The rest will live in cabins for 6 - 12 people."Size forecastles depends on displacement of the ship - on large, such as the" Mistral "or" Peter the Great ", to cabin system Kubrick designed for six people. The bathroom with one for a few cabins" - said the former Navy Commander Viktor Kravchenko.Contract For Sale "Mistral" was signed in 2011 under President Dmitry Medvedev.The deal amounted to 1.2 billion euros.It is planned that the first ship "Vladivostok" put Russia in October 2014, and the second - "Sevastopol" in 2015.
 
ويكيبديا الروسية بتقول انها كانت هتسلح بصواريخ كلوب k

375px-Club-K002.jpg
 
التعديل الأخير:
ياشباب صباحكم فل انا عايز اقولكم ان الراي الاول والاخير لقيادة شعبة تسليح القوات المسلحة و شعبة تسليح القوات البحرية وهما الاجدر والافضل في تحديد الفائدة اللي هتضاف للقوات البحرية بيها او ليس لها اهمية قصوي او احتياج في وقتنا الحالي وهما ظباط اكفاء مشهود لهم بالكفاءة والحرص علي مصلحة الوطن والحمدلله كلنا نعرف مدي حرصهم علي ان لايقوموا بالتعاقد بملايين علي اي سلاح لا يضيف لقواتنا شي
ولو اني معجب بالميسترال و اتمني ان تدخل الخدمة وتعمل بشرف قواتنا البحرية المصرية العريقة والقوية في المنطقة كلها
 
فيديو للقاء صبحي مع رئيس الاركان الكندي
والعصار منور في القعدة :D
احبيبي يا عصار :D

 
الكلام دة خطير وان دل يدل عن ان فية كلام رسمي
علي ما يبدوا ان مصر وكندا هيشيلوا الليلة
كمان التفاصيل اللي كل شوية بتظهر
بتخلي الموضوع اقرب للواقع
كندا ترغب بالميسترال المجهزة للعمل في الجليد
ومصر تاخد الميسترال الاخري بس اتمني ان تتعاقد مصر في تلك الحالة علي حزمة التسليح الروسية بالكامل مش بس الطائرة لا ومنظومات الردار والانذار والدفاع الجوي والدفاع ضد الطوربيدات والذي منة
 
ندوبها فعرق العافية يارجالة
انا كل مرجع وقول بلاش ميسترال خلينا نجيب غواصات ونزود سفن السطح
الاقيها تزغلل فعيني تاني
بس كدة التكلفة الشراء مش كبيرة
اعتقد مش هتزيد عن المليار بكافة التجهيزات
 
فيديو للقاء صبحي مع رئيس الاركان الكندي
والعصار منور في القعدة :D
احبيبي يا عصار :D



بيقوله المسترال دي بتاعتنا متقربش ليها ولو قربت خد وحده وسيبلنا وحده
 
انا اتمني اننا نشتري الاتنين بصراحه وحده بالبحر الاحمر ووحده بالبحر المتوسط وكفايه كده بقي مع مجموعتها القتاليه
 
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