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السلام عليكم شباب انا و انا باقرأ احد ردود اخواننا الجزائريين اتذكرت كلام قراته من منتدى طيارين امريكان متقاعدين كثير منهم شارك في حرب الخليج ذلك المنتدى يعتبر كنز معرفه ما تتصوروه المهم انا قابلني رد لاحد الطياريين و هو يشرح العقيده القتاليه الروسيه في الجو اللي خلاني اقول هذا موضوع نقاش رائع بحكم اننا من المفروض نكون خبراء في التسليح...ممكن مو خبراء لكن هواه جامديين اوي ![:walw[1]:](/vb/data/assets/smilies/c39c84e393dbca960a05b9f45e20e07203df7b3c.gif "-- :walw[1]:")
المهم هذا هو نص اللي كتبه:
First, I have to say that Fulcrum is not any multrirole aircraft. Yes, it can carry iron boms and unguided rockets, but all non-OVT or non 29M Fulcrums have AG capability similar to F-15A.
About the dogfighting - fully loaded F-16 is no way better than loaded Fulcrum.
On the air defence system and iraqi losses.
Soviet-like AD system is based on ground radar and ground guidance. Only very recently AWACS-type aircraft appeared, but they were largerly inferior to Western ones.
All soviet-trained air defence forces did receive very little ACM and ACT training. All this works like below:
1. Ground radar detects the treat
2. Alert fighters are launched and pilot will take them to climb
3. Then pilots switches on GCI director system (SAU-155 or something) and takes hands off the stick
4. Airplane is guided by radio link toward target so that its longitudional axis is aimed to target. Airplanes radar is off.
5. If airplane reaches its radar range, GCI is switched off and pilot takes over. As its nose is pointing to target, when he illuminates the radar, he will have almost instant lock on. Missile triggers wont work until target is in firing range. Then the cue "PR" (pusk rasreshon - launch autorized" appears on HUD and trigger becames active. Trigger is activated to launch ripple fire - on SARH and one IR missile. Then pilots starts to look at clock when missiles will hit and he can maneuver or turn avay.
6. If medium-range attack fails, GCI guides (using voice commands) pilot to enemy's six-o'clock to launch short-range missiles.
Normally AD pilots have little dogfight training. All system is heavily centralized and pilot only takes action if told so. All tactics are heavily ground guided.
To operate soviet aircraft radar you need to know where the enemy is. Then you choose correct sector, you will easily find it, having plane positioned by GCI to correct direction.
Because all those jets are heavily ground-controlled (or sometimes A-50 controlled), the situational awereness is almost non-existent to western standards. All this is more or less valid for Fulcrum and Flanker as well. Did you know that first accurate gunsight came in service 1987 on MiG-29.
Iraqi MiGs were driven to the ground not because of good US airmen (no doubt, they are good) - but mostly because of garbage cocpit instrumentation, where pilots looses orientation in airspace, there are even no gyro indication on HUD, but it is low on dash!
US airmen knew all the times, where enemy is, but iraqis did not. Why?
1. All early warning radars and command bunkers were destroyed at day1
2. GCI filght control, voice control links and guidance radars were either destroyed or jammed
3. Soviet AA radars, even the RP-29 Shuk (Bug) are not designed for autonomous operation, but for use with ground guidance/interception data.
4. It is difficult to manage GCI battle when screens became too crowded, they are designed to intercept only limited numbers on enemy aircraft.
Problem is that all this system is invalid by todays terms. it is not about airmen, but about tactics.
Maybe best explanation to problem is how they call their radars
For MiG-29, radar designation is RP-29
RP stands for "Radiolokatsionnõi Pritsel" - in english - radar sight. This is device to aim missiles toward target, which altitude and heading is previously known with GCI help. Not on their own.
كما ترون العقيده الروسيه تختلف تماما عن العقيده الجويه الغربيه. من هذا الكلام انا فهمت ليش دائما المتسلحين بالاسلحه الروسيه يفشلوا امام الغرب. بمعنى اخر اعتقد انه العقيده الروسيه لن تنجح ابدا امام الغرب الا بدفاع جوي من S-400 و S-300 لهذا هم مركزين بشكل خاص على انظمة الدفاع الجوي.
و السلام عليكم.
راح احاول اسف كسلت لكن عشانها تحتوي على مصطلحات طياريين قعدت سنه و نص اقرا عشان افهما حيكون صعب جدا لكن راح احاول الا اذا في واحد بيتبرع شباب؟؟ مافي؟؟ اوكي حترجمها و على فكره عندي الانقليزي شويه احسن من العربي فتوقعوا تخويش في الترجمه و الله يعين:
اولا مرجع للمصطلحات:
Fulcrum=Mig29 بلغة الطيارين.
OVT= نسخة من الميج اللي تحتوي على Fly-by-Wire طيران بالسلك؟؟ و Thrust vectoring المحركات اللي تتحرك و تلعب في الجو ما اعرف اسمها بالعربي.
AD= Air defense دفاع جوي
ACM= Air Combat Maneuvering
ACT= Air Combat Tactics
GCI = Ground control Interception
A-50 = Bariev NATO reporting name Mainstay
HUD = Heads up display
AA = Anti Air
المهم هذا هو نص اللي كتبه:
First, I have to say that Fulcrum is not any multrirole aircraft. Yes, it can carry iron boms and unguided rockets, but all non-OVT or non 29M Fulcrums have AG capability similar to F-15A.
About the dogfighting - fully loaded F-16 is no way better than loaded Fulcrum.
On the air defence system and iraqi losses.
Soviet-like AD system is based on ground radar and ground guidance. Only very recently AWACS-type aircraft appeared, but they were largerly inferior to Western ones.
All soviet-trained air defence forces did receive very little ACM and ACT training. All this works like below:
1. Ground radar detects the treat
2. Alert fighters are launched and pilot will take them to climb
3. Then pilots switches on GCI director system (SAU-155 or something) and takes hands off the stick
4. Airplane is guided by radio link toward target so that its longitudional axis is aimed to target. Airplanes radar is off.
5. If airplane reaches its radar range, GCI is switched off and pilot takes over. As its nose is pointing to target, when he illuminates the radar, he will have almost instant lock on. Missile triggers wont work until target is in firing range. Then the cue "PR" (pusk rasreshon - launch autorized" appears on HUD and trigger becames active. Trigger is activated to launch ripple fire - on SARH and one IR missile. Then pilots starts to look at clock when missiles will hit and he can maneuver or turn avay.
6. If medium-range attack fails, GCI guides (using voice commands) pilot to enemy's six-o'clock to launch short-range missiles.
Normally AD pilots have little dogfight training. All system is heavily centralized and pilot only takes action if told so. All tactics are heavily ground guided.
To operate soviet aircraft radar you need to know where the enemy is. Then you choose correct sector, you will easily find it, having plane positioned by GCI to correct direction.
Because all those jets are heavily ground-controlled (or sometimes A-50 controlled), the situational awereness is almost non-existent to western standards. All this is more or less valid for Fulcrum and Flanker as well. Did you know that first accurate gunsight came in service 1987 on MiG-29.
Iraqi MiGs were driven to the ground not because of good US airmen (no doubt, they are good) - but mostly because of garbage cocpit instrumentation, where pilots looses orientation in airspace, there are even no gyro indication on HUD, but it is low on dash!
US airmen knew all the times, where enemy is, but iraqis did not. Why?
1. All early warning radars and command bunkers were destroyed at day1
2. GCI filght control, voice control links and guidance radars were either destroyed or jammed
3. Soviet AA radars, even the RP-29 Shuk (Bug) are not designed for autonomous operation, but for use with ground guidance/interception data.
4. It is difficult to manage GCI battle when screens became too crowded, they are designed to intercept only limited numbers on enemy aircraft.
Problem is that all this system is invalid by todays terms. it is not about airmen, but about tactics.
Maybe best explanation to problem is how they call their radars
For MiG-29, radar designation is RP-29
RP stands for "Radiolokatsionnõi Pritsel" - in english - radar sight. This is device to aim missiles toward target, which altitude and heading is previously known with GCI help. Not on their own.
كما ترون العقيده الروسيه تختلف تماما عن العقيده الجويه الغربيه. من هذا الكلام انا فهمت ليش دائما المتسلحين بالاسلحه الروسيه يفشلوا امام الغرب. بمعنى اخر اعتقد انه العقيده الروسيه لن تنجح ابدا امام الغرب الا بدفاع جوي من S-400 و S-300 لهذا هم مركزين بشكل خاص على انظمة الدفاع الجوي.
و السلام عليكم.
راح احاول اسف كسلت لكن عشانها تحتوي على مصطلحات طياريين قعدت سنه و نص اقرا عشان افهما حيكون صعب جدا لكن راح احاول الا اذا في واحد بيتبرع شباب؟؟ مافي؟؟ اوكي حترجمها و على فكره عندي الانقليزي شويه احسن من العربي فتوقعوا تخويش في الترجمه و الله يعين:
اولا مرجع للمصطلحات:
Fulcrum=Mig29 بلغة الطيارين.
OVT= نسخة من الميج اللي تحتوي على Fly-by-Wire طيران بالسلك؟؟ و Thrust vectoring المحركات اللي تتحرك و تلعب في الجو ما اعرف اسمها بالعربي.
AD= Air defense دفاع جوي
ACM= Air Combat Maneuvering
ACT= Air Combat Tactics
GCI = Ground control Interception
A-50 = Bariev NATO reporting name Mainstay
HUD = Heads up display
AA = Anti Air
التعديل الأخير:
