Will the Joint Rostec/UAE agreement jeopardize future F-35/Rafale negotiations?

[GREEN]

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IDEX's 2017 didn't only establish itself among world's major defense related events but also witnessed the signature of a joint agreement between Russian firm Rostec and the UAE ministry of defense aimed at developing and producing a light fifth generation aircraft based on the mig-29 airframe. Under this agreement, Russia is set to provide the UAE with fifth generation technologies in order to be produced locally in partnership with UAE defense firms.


The agreement, described as "completely different than other defense deals signed between the UAE and the west", revealed an Emirati intent of establishing itself as a major aerospace and defense pole in the MENA region. This goal, primarily driven by a desire of breaking from an oil-dependent economy, would be reached through a major shift in defense procurement strategies in a way that takes into consideration major technology transfers and the establishment of an infrastructure capable of building robust, technological products independently of foreign manufacturers.


Around the world defense offset programs have been a serious source of criticism due to inconsistencies in generating economic value. however, it can be done with the right incentives in places for the various participants: exporting countries usually want to preserve jobs, contractors want to maintain control of intellectual properties while on the other side, exporting countries want to remove barriers to building industrial ecosystems-improving prepared human capital pools, and ancillary services- to take care of the opportunity.


From a Russian perspective, Russian Aircraft Cooperation MiG was reported working on another fifth generation aircraft, according to Deputy Prime Minister Dimitri Rogozin, aimed at replacing old MiG-29 variants as well as complementing Sukhoi's PAK-FA. Therefore, the signature of such an agreement would be essentially viewed as an opportunity especially from a financial point of view since it would significantly reduce research and development costs in a way that resembles the agreement signed with India last year.


However, with a fleet comprised in its culmination of 80 F-16 E/F Block 60 "Desert Falcons" and approximately 60 upgraded Mirage 2000-9, the agreement seems to be at odds with the interests of other major defense producing nations primarily the United States and France. The Emirati ministry of defense is reportedly negotiating with Dassault Aviation in order to be the next Rafale operator in the MENA region (post 2018-timeframe) while the United Arab Emirates Air Force is rumored to be the second Middle East operator of the Joint Strike Fighter following the integration of the 3F software. Consequently, political interference may not be dismissed at this stage to prevent this agreement form turning to reality in a similar way that previously occurred in the 90s when the UAE was about to procure a trust vectoring version of the SU-35 (publicly known as the SU-37) before finally deciding to procure Lockheed’s F-16.

 

[GREEN]

الموضوع عن مقاتلة الجيل الخامس المشتركة بين روسيا و دولة الامارات المتحدة

 

[Ethan]

Would not be better than the F-35B, it's good that the UK has a project with the Turks

 

[صلاح الدين الأيوبي]

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IDEX's 2017 didn't only establish itself among world's major defense related events but also witnessed the signature of a joint agreement between Russian firm Rostec and the UAE ministry of defense aimed at developing and producing a light fifth generation aircraft based on the mig-29 airframe. Under this agreement, Russia is set to provide the UAE with fifth generation technologies in order to be produced locally in partnership with UAE defense firms.


The agreement, described as "completely different than other defense deals signed between the UAE and the west", revealed an Emirati intent of establishing itself as a major aerospace and defense pole in the MENA region. This goal, primarily driven by a desire of breaking from an oil-dependent economy, would be reached through a major shift in defense procurement strategies in a way that takes into consideration major technology transfers and the establishment of an infrastructure capable of building robust, technological products independently of foreign manufacturers.


Around the world defense offset programs have been a serious source of criticism due to inconsistencies in generating economic value. however, it can be done with the right incentives in places for the various participants: exporting countries usually want to preserve jobs, contractors want to maintain control of intellectual properties while on the other side, exporting countries want to remove barriers to building industrial ecosystems-improving prepared human capital pools, and ancillary services- to take care of the opportunity.


From a Russian perspective, Russian Aircraft Cooperation MiG was reported working on another fifth generation aircraft, according to Deputy Prime Minister Dimitri Rogozin, aimed at replacing old MiG-29 variants as well as complementing Sukhoi's PAK-FA. Therefore, the signature of such an agreement would be essentially viewed as an opportunity especially from a financial point of view since it would significantly reduce research and development costs in a way that resembles the agreement signed with India last year.


However, with a fleet comprised in its culmination of 80 F-16 E/F Block 60 "Desert Falcons" and approximately 60 upgraded Mirage 2000-9, the agreement seems to be at odds with the interests of other major defense producing nations primarily the United States and France. The Emirati ministry of defense is reportedly negotiating with Dassault Aviation in order to be the next Rafale operator in the MENA region (post 2018-timeframe) while the United Arab Emirates Air Force is rumored to be the second Middle East operator of the Joint Strike Fighter following the integration of the 3F software. Consequently, political interference may not be dismissed at this stage to prevent this agreement form turning to reality in a similar way that previously occurred in the 90s when the UAE was about to procure a trust vectoring version of the SU-35 (publicly known as the SU-37) before finally deciding to procure Lockheed’s F-16.

في الحقيقه حسنا فعلت الأمارات بأستغلالها الضروف الأقتصاديه الروسيه السيئه للحصول علي ماتريد ، شركه ميغ الروسيه لا تستطيع ان تنتج انواع جديده من الطائرات لانها لا تمتلك الأموال الكافيه لصرفها علي الأبحاث.

كانت الشركه علي وشك اغلاق ابوابها بسبب افلاسها ولكن تم انقاذها عن طريق ضمها الي مجموعه سوخوي الروسيه مما مكنها من الأستمرار وهي في الوقت الحالي تتلخص قدراتها في عمليات تطوير مختلف انواع مقاتلات الميغ القديمه حتي ان مشروعها الحيوي الميغ - 35 شهد الكثير من الأنتكاسات والتأجيلات بسبب قله الأموال التي تحتاج اليها للأستمرار في هذا المشروع.

دخول الأمارات علي الخط واستعدادها لتمويل ابحاث شركه ميغ الروسيه سوف ينقذها ويخرجها من النفق المظلم الذي تمر به ، حيث ان الأموال الأماراتيه سوف تجعل الشركه الروسيه قادره علي اجراء الأبحاث والخروج بتكنولوجيات جديده لتوظيفها في مقاتله جديده خفيفه مبنيه علي اساس المقاتله الروسيه الميغ - 29.

 

[صلاح الدين الأيوبي]

Would not be better than the F-35B, it's good that the UK has a project with the Turks

same thing goes for the british/turkish project

lets just wait and see what will the emarati/russian project be before judging it.

 

[Ethan]

same thing goes for the british/turkish project

lets just wait and see what will the emarati/russian project be before judging it.

are you kidding me ? , When did the Russian fighters become rivals of the American or even European? , So far they have not completed the PAC-FA project, how do they start a new project?
Add to that the project with Meg and not with the manufacturer of the Pac Fa, if we say goodbye until the next 20 years.

 

[صلاح الدين الأيوبي]

are you kidding me ? , When did the Russian fighters become rivals of the American or even European? , So far they have not completed the PAC-FA project, how do they start a new project?
Add to that the project with Meg and not with the manufacturer of the Pac Fa, if we say goodbye until the next 20 years.

your reply is out of context, it has nothing to do with what i mentioned before.

mig corporate is under sukhoi group umbrella and the emarati money will help them to develop new projects, the only thing holding mig corporate from kick starting new project is lack of sufficient funds.

 

[Ethan]

your reply is out of context, it has nothing to do with what i mentioned before.

mig corporate is under sukhoi group umbrella and the emarati money will help them to develop new projects, the only thing holding mig corporate from kick starting new project is lack of sufficient funds.

Oh really ? Do you think money is everything? How many years do they sell Sukhoi in huge quantities? The Russian government, however, strongly supports them, and so far they have not come out with a worthy fourth-generation aircraft, let alone a fifth generation jet? Add to that it's Meg and not Sukhoi, is really ridiculous.

 

[صلاح الدين الأيوبي]

Oh really ? Do you think money is everything? How many years do they sell Sukhoi in huge quantities? The Russian government, however, strongly supports them, and so far they have not come out with a worthy fourth-generation aircraft, let alone a fifth generation jet? Add to that it's Meg and not Sukhoi, is really ridiculous.

if money isn't every thing then why the hell yankees keep selling arms 24/7?

any way the Russians have considerable counterstealth technologies. So while the PAK-FA fails to deliver the stealth or total networking capacity of the F-35, it is a fighter — and a damn good one.

The US's F-22 has 2D thrust-vectoring nozzles at the engines and is the most agile plane the US has ever built. The PAK-FA has 3D thrust-vectoring nozzles and is even more agile.

Additionally, the PAK-FA can be armed to the teeth with infrared missiles that focus on heat and ignore the US's stealth. So while the US's fifth generation hinges on controlling the battle from range and at the jump-off point, Russia's PAK-FA seems to focus on close-up fights, which the designers of the F-35 didn't concentrate on.

in the end its not how sofisticated the weapon are to win a war, it's how you use it that matters most.

I rest my case. peace bro

 

[Ethan]

if money isn't every thing then why the hell yankees keep selling arms 24/7?

any way the Russians have considerable counterstealth technologies. So while the PAK-FA fails to deliver the stealth or total networking capacity of the F-35, it is a fighter — and a damn good one.

The US's F-22 has 2D thrust-vectoring nozzles at the engines and is the most agile plane the US has ever built. The PAK-FA has 3D thrust-vectoring nozzles and is even more agile.

Additionally, the PAK-FA can be armed to the teeth with infrared missiles that focus on heat and ignore the US's stealth. So while the US's fifth generation hinges on controlling the battle from range and at the jump-off point, Russia's PAK-FA seems to focus on close-up fights, which the designers of the F-35 didn't concentrate on.

in the end its not how sofisticated the weapon are to win a war, it's how you use it that matters most.

I rest my case. peace bro

Even though we are talking about another project, not the Pak-Fa, and despite all this, the PAK-FA is not a rival to the F-35 fighter, or even the F-22, the Russians have not succeeded in a fourth generation aircraft worthy of respect as I said, The best in the fourth generation, although the (PAK-FA) features as RT claims, if that was a ghostly, thank you.

 

[صلاح الدين الأيوبي]

Even though we are talking about another project, not the Pak-Fa, and despite all this, the PAK-FA is not a rival to the F-35 fighter, or even the F-22, the Russians have not succeeded in a fourth generation aircraft worthy of respect as I said, The best in the fourth generation, although the (PAK-FA) features as RT claims, if that was a ghostly, thank you.

are you kidding me?? your comparing a production aircraft to another aircraft still under development?

 

[Ethan]

You are now confirming what I'm saying,

So far they have not completed the PAC-FA project

,Then you are comparing it to F-35 and F-22
And then you agreed with me

your comparing a production aircraft to another aircraft still under development

In any case, we may agree that the PAK-FA is not a fifth generation aircraft, but it may be better in the future. My last response was to clarify the enormous differences, and it can not be compared to a plane of its generation today, as I say. Thank you for your kind feelings.